Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Confirmed: All Non-Africans Are Part Neanderthal

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    OK, please bear with me here - totally NOT a scientific mind.

    If, as stated, Africans don't share any Neander genes, then our African ancestor "eves and "adams" 'interbred' somewhere out of Africa on the so called 'journey of man'.

    The New Scientist magazine says Neanderthals didn't live in Africa, but implies there was a common ancestor to both Neanderthals (Homo neanderthalensis) (HN) and (I suppose) homo erectus/sapiens (HS) in Africa. So I'm assuming ALL of the HNs got out of Africa before there was any species 'development' of HS to the point where "that HN girl looked pretty cute to that HS man", in Africa, if you get my drift.

    I can see how there was plenty of time in the possible 100,000 year 'overlap' in Europe for the HNs to be both absorbed into the HS groups through interbreeding, and also by survival of the fittest/inter group warfare, for the HNs as a pure race to cease to exist. And I like that scenario. I didn't feel good about the HNs just being wiped out like the Woolly Mammoth.

    But I've having trouble with the fact that there is said to be NO genetic trace of HN in African DNA today. If HNs were there from the 'get go', did every last one leave and turn the lights off; and if some later HS groups are known to have crossed back into N. Africa (mt-DNA U3 for example), what happened to that HN ~4%. ??

    I'm sure there is a simple reason. I can't think of it just now, and my prominent brow is breaking into a sweat ...

    Anyone?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ahernandez View Post
      http://news.discovery.com/human/gene...al-110718.html

      They mention a segment of the X chromosome... I wonder what segment that is?
      Actually, the tiltle of the post is incorrect. It is not correct to say that ALL non African individuals have Neanderthal DNA. What the article says is that Neanderthal DNA is only found in non African populations. These non African populations are from everywhere in the World except Africa.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Peacock100 View Post
        ... What the article says is that Neanderthal DNA is only found in non African populations. These non African populations are from everywhere in the World except Africa.
        Yes, that is correct as I read it too.

        But what about the overlap in Africa. And the move back into Africa of the U Haplogroup - I think it is U6 not U3 as I previously wrote ...

        So, my fevered and prominent brow continues to be uber-furrowed.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mudgeeclarke View Post
          Yes, that is correct as I read it too.

          But what about the overlap in Africa. And the move back into Africa of the U Haplogroup - I think it is U6 not U3 as I previously wrote ...

          So, my fevered and prominent brow continues to be uber-furrowed.
          Have read your post and am wondering about that too. Why no Africans with Neanderthal genes. Lack of sufficient DNA studies of African populations or what is going on?

          Comment


          • #20
            Linds posted a link to the original journal article in post #6.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Wilma Wildcat View Post
              Linds posted a link to the original journal article in post #6.

              Yes, I read that article (probably understood 10% of it !!). I noticed "sub-saharan africans" there, so maybe that is the answer. But at the timeframe they are talking, I thought the Sahara was not so much desert as grasslands in much of it. So if it is not "all africans" but rather "sub saharans", where does one draw the geographic line? (and don't say, 'in the sand'.)

              I'm sure the answer is obvious, but my ~9% of the 'other' DNA is giving me thinkers block.

              Comment


              • #22
                Oh, I see...well, I just heard sub-Saharan and plan to wait for the Nat Geo special.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Peacock100 View Post
                  Have read your post and am wondering about that too. Why no Africans with Neanderthal genes. Lack of sufficient DNA studies of African populations or what is going on?
                  I think what it meant is that the mixing of Homo Sapiens with Neanderthals was AFTER the split and part of the population moved north to become Europeans and Asians. But the mix was BEFORE the split of Europeans and Asians since all humans BUT those from sub-saharan Africa are "part Neanderthal".

                  Neanderthals did not live on the African continent, so the mixing occurred after modern European/Asian HS migrated 'out of Africa'.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Linds is correct. Neanderthals evolved in Eurasia. They never existed in Africa. Since HS were migrating out of Africa one way no sub Saharan African has Neanderthal DNA.

                    Now, I do believe everyone else (including African Americans of mixed ancestry) do have Neanderthal DNA to varying degrees.

                    Also, some native people in Papua New Guinea also have a second mystery Hominid (Denisovans) mixed into their genetic heritage, which they probably encountered in Asia.

                    http://news.discovery.com/human/huma...ia-101222.html
                    Last edited by ahernandez; 21 July 2011, 08:37 PM. Reason: adding link

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The general theory is that Africa was the geographic source of all human species over the last 5 million+ years.

                      There were several out-migrations over the last 2 million years. After leaving, different populations evolved into different species (or at least sub-species) in different locales.

                      H. neanderthalensis evolved from H. heidelbergensis, which is presumed to have lived over much of Africa, the Middle East & Europe between close to a million years ago & a few hundred thousand years ago. The derived species are H. sapiens in Africa & H. neanderthalensis in Europe & the Middle East.

                      Timothy Peterman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by T E Peterman View Post
                        The general theory is that Africa was the geographic source of all human species over the last 5 million+ years.

                        There were several out-migrations over the last 2 million years. After leaving, different populations evolved into different species (or at least sub-species) in different locales.

                        H. neanderthalensis evolved from H. heidelbergensis, which is presumed to have lived over much of Africa, the Middle East & Europe between close to a million years ago & a few hundred thousand years ago. The derived species are H. sapiens in Africa & H. neanderthalensis in Europe & the Middle East.

                        Timothy Peterman
                        Does this mean the most recent common ancestor for Africans and Non - Africans is 2 million years ago ????????

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 507 View Post
                          Does this mean the most recent common ancestor for Africans and Non - Africans is 2 million years ago ????????
                          Not necessarily, notice he said "several out-migrations over the last 2 million years" [emphasis added]. The first one was around 2 MYa, according to some estimates. But this is an area where there's still lots of disagreement in the scientific community: the time-frame of the migrations, how many there were, whether there were back-migrations, etc.

                          I think the resolution on this will get much better in the coming years as the cost and time to sequence a full genome drops, more and more from around the world are sequenced, new SNPs are identified, and our ability to process and analyze them gets better.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Thanks Nathanm. The 2million +- outmigration led to H. erectus of East Asia (Peking Man, Java Man, etc.). A more recent 700,000 +- outmigration led to Neanderthals & maybe the Denisovans.

                            Timothy Peterman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              New Article

                              Another interesting article about humans interbreeding with other homonids (and possibly them breeding with each other!)

                              http://www.newscientist.com/article/...mily-tree.html

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hi, All,

                                I am a noob at DNA-based family research, and so there is nothing that I could add to this thread, except to say that the topic of this thread really is fascinating, the idea of literally millions of years of human evolution, etc., and I appreciate your efforts and interest.

                                Thanks!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X