Advice needed please for a newbie

[sadiesmith]

Hello.
Through Ancestry research and Familytree DNA I have found a possible half brother,who is willing to undertake DNA testing through Familytree DNA.
Please could someone advise which test it would be best to take,the connection to us both, if my research is correct would be through the paternal line of the family.
Sorry if I have posted this in the wrong section,being new to this sort of thing I didn't know quite where to post.
Any help would be very much appreciated.

Sadie Smith

[nathanm]

Hello.
Through Ancestry research and Familytree DNA I have found a possible half brother,who is willing to undertake DNA testing through Familytree DNA.
Please could someone advise which test it would be best to take,the connection to us both, if my research is correct would be through the paternal line of the family.
Sorry if I have posted this in the wrong section,being new to this sort of thing I didn't know quite where to post.
Any help would be very much appreciated.

Sadie Smith

Only males can take a Y-DNA test, so unless you have another brother from the same father who could test as your proxy, that wouldn't work. However, the Family Finder (FF) test should work great in your situation. You should share about 25% of your DNA with half-siblings, so if both of you get FF, it should be pretty straightforward.

[sadiesmith]

Only males can take a Y-DNA test, so unless you have another brother from the same father who could test as your proxy, that wouldn't work. However, the Family Finder (FF) test should work great in your situation. You should share about 25% of your DNA with half-siblings, so if both of you get FF, it should be pretty straightforward.

Hello Nathanm.
Thank you for your reply.My wife joined me into the form thus the sadiesmith user name. I am actually male! Would you still advise family finder? or Familyfinder and the YDNA test as well.

[JohnLloydScharf]

Sibling Tests

[email protected] is recommended by FTDNA.

Siblingship tests require professional counseling and advice, please email our siblingship specialist today for a customized quotation.
For DNA Extractions from samples other than cheek cells.
Submit your request by email for a quotation.

It is at the bottom of the products page:

http://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx

Hello.
Through Ancestry research and Familytree DNA I have found a possible half brother,who is willing to undertake DNA testing through Familytree DNA.
Please could someone advise which test it would be best to take,the connection to us both, if my research is correct would be through the paternal line of the family.
Sorry if I have posted this in the wrong section,being new to this sort of thing I didn't know quite where to post.
Any help would be very much appreciated.

Sadie Smith

[efgen]

[email protected]ndings.com is recommended by FTDNA.

Siblingship tests require professional counseling and advice, please email our siblingship specialist today for a customized quotation.

The siblingship test via DNA Findings is more geared toward a determination that can be used for legal purposes. For non-legal purposes, and especially if the OP might be interested in comparing with other customers of FTDNA in case he has other relatives in the database, the Family Finder test through Family Tree DNA is an excellent option.

Regarding the Y-DNA test.... it can tell you if two men are related along the direct paternal line, but it can't differentiate between father/son, brothers, uncle/nephew or cousins.

So Family Finder is best for this situation, although you could certainly do both FF and Y-DNA if you wish, so that you cover all bases for your paternal line.

Elise

[JohnLloydScharf]

There is no Y to test in this case and the sibling test is a complex of autosomal tests. Family Finder is not a solution in this case. It cannot discriminate between a half brother and a second cousin.

The siblingship test via DNA Findings is more geared toward a determination that can be used for legal purposes. For non-legal purposes, and especially if the OP might be interested in comparing with other customers of FTDNA in case he has other relatives in the database, the Family Finder test through Family Tree DNA is an excellent option.

Regarding the Y-DNA test.... it can tell you if two men are related along the direct paternal line, but it can't differentiate between father/son, brothers, uncle/nephew or cousins.

So Family Finder is best for this situation, although you could certainly do both FF and Y-DNA if you wish, so that you cover all bases for your paternal line.

Elise

[JohnLloydScharf]

If you are attempting to determine if someone is your half sibling, it is more important who your parent in common is. If you share the same mother, then comparing mtDNA is useful. If you share the same father, then testing yDNA is more useful. However, resolving a a sibling relationship is tough because you can be cousins rather than siblings. I would recommend autosomal tests, but you need to have more consultation than that, regardless of whether it is a legal issue or not.

Hello Nathanm.
Thank you for your reply.My wife joined me into the form thus the sadiesmith user name. I am actually male! Would you still advise family finder? or Familyfinder and the YDNA test as well.

[k.o.gran]

There is no Y to test in this case and the sibling test is a complex of autosomal tests. Family Finder is not a solution in this case. It cannot discriminate between a half brother and a second cousin.

I think you are wrong. He says he is male and he suspect he has a half brother with a father in common. A Y-DNA test seems perfect. In regards to FF it is also a good test to take if the question is "are we half brothers, or very distantly related/not related at all?". If the question is "are we half brothers or second cousins?", then it won't help.

[JohnLloydScharf]

FF cannot tell if you are a brother, cousin, or even unrelated in many generations for certain. Siblings inherit different batches of autosomal DNA. One can get the batch from Sardinia and the other from Morocco. It has been seen in the results. This is the one case where DNA just confirms paperwork, but does not exclude a relationship.

With yDNA they can be your cousin or uncle or no relation for 400 years into the past. I share my yDNA haplotype with my uncle's son's son. The only thing yDNA can do is exclude the possibility of relationship. It cannot confirm it. Your basic understanding of yDNA is incorrect.

With the 30 autosomal alleles in a sibling test, you can predict relationship with a high degree of probability that is known.

I think you are wrong. He says he is male and he suspect he has a half brother with a father in common. A Y-DNA test seems perfect. In regards to FF it is also a good test to take if the question is "are we half brothers, or very distantly related/not related at all?". If the question is "are we half brothers or second cousins?", then it won't help.

[nathanm]

Hello Nathanm.
Thank you for your reply.My wife joined me into the form thus the sadiesmith user name. I am actually male! Would you still advise family finder? or Familyfinder and the YDNA test as well.

If you're just curious to know for sure if you're half-brothers, a Y-DNA test will immediately either disprove or further support you having a common paternal ancestor. No "sibling test" is required unless you want some kind of legal declaration. The FF can tell you about how much DNA you share, which should be about 25%.

Like others are arguing on this thread, it's true that neither test on their own can tell you what your exact relationship is. Grandparents-grandchildren, aunt/uncle-niece/nephew, and half-siblings should all share about 25%. However, since you already suspect you're half-brothers, that shouldn't be an issue.

If money's not a problem, I'd get both tests. The evidence from both tests combined should be a slam dunk confirmation (or confirming you're not). If you're looking for an economical solution, the 37 marker Y-DNA test should be sufficient to show you have a very recent paternal ancestor. If you do have the same father, the odds you would be perfect 37/37 matches are very high.

[efgen]

FF cannot tell if you are a brother, cousin, or even unrelated in many generations for certain. Siblings inherit different batches of autosomal DNA. One can get the batch from Sardinia and the other from Morocco. It has been seen in the results. This is the one case where DNA just confirms paperwork, but does not exclude a relationship.

John,

You don't know what you are talking about. Family Finder provides a heck of a lot more information than percentages of ancestry from different regions. It tests over 710,000 pairs of SNPs across the autosomes and it specifically DOES determine relationships. The closer the relationship, the more accurate the determination is -- more distant relationships are more challenging to determine accurately. Half siblings most certainly CAN be determined with this test, and if you don't believe me, go call FTDNA and ask them before you continue dishing out incorrect information.

For those wishing to read the information directly from FTDNA itself, please check out the Family Finder FAQ:

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17

And more specifically:

Q. What is the probability that my relative and I share enough DNA for Family Finder to detect?
A. If your relationship is within recent generations (2rd or more recent cousins), Family Finder is almost sure to detect your relationship. Testing will also detect many 3rd cousins and about half of your 4th cousins. It will detect a small percentage of 5th and more distant cousins.

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17#628

And for those who wish to learn even more about the 3 major types of DNA tests that Family Tree DNA offers (Y-DNA, mtDNA, FF), please feel free to check out my free Intro to Genetic Genealogy webinar, which does contain accurate information from Family Tree DNA:

http://www.relativeroots.net/webinars/

Elise

[JohnLloydScharf]

*I* know because a man and his sister had results exactly as I explained them. Yes, the closer the relationship the more you match, but the question is if two people are siblings, not second cousins twice removed. You absolutely are wrong in advising anyone to use Family Finder to determine a sibling relationship.

If Family Finder worked for certifying sibling relationships, FTDNA would not advise you to go elsewhere. Common sense, if not science, should tell you that. The autosomal tests have the resolution needed for parentage and siblingship tests.

FTDNA SAYS ABOUT FAMILY FINDER VS PARENTAGE/SIBLINGSHIP TESTS:
Is this like autosomal parentage and siblingship tests? faq id: 799
Both tests use your autosomal DNA. However, there are notable differences between them. Parentage and siblingship tests use autosomal short tandem repeats (STRs). The Family Finder test uses single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). STRs provide more resolution per marker than SNPs. However, Family Finder test uses such a large number of SNPs that it is able to detect and calculate the degree of relationship for five generations.

FTDNA provides autosomal parentage and siblingship tests, but not for court purposes.

John,

You don't know what you are talking about. Family Finder provides a heck of a lot more information than percentages of ancestry from different regions. It tests over 710,000 pairs of SNPs across the autosomes and it specifically DOES determine relationships. The closer the relationship, the more accurate the determination is -- more distant relationships are more challenging to determine accurately. Half siblings most certainly CAN be determined with this test, and if you don't believe me, go call FTDNA and ask them before you continue dishing out incorrect information.

For those wishing to read the information directly from FTDNA itself, please check out the Family Finder FAQ:

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17

And more specifically:

Q. What is the probability that my relative and I share enough DNA for Family Finder to detect?
A. If your relationship is within recent generations (2rd or more recent cousins), Family Finder is almost sure to detect your relationship. Testing will also detect many 3rd cousins and about half of your 4th cousins. It will detect a small percentage of 5th and more distant cousins.

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17#628

And for those who wish to learn even more about the 3 major types of DNA tests that Family Tree DNA offers (Y-DNA, mtDNA, FF), please feel free to check out my free Intro to Genetic Genealogy webinar, which does contain accurate information from Family Tree DNA:

http://www.relativeroots.net/webinars/

Elise

[nathanm]

*I* know because a man and his sister had results exactly as I explained them. Yes, the closer the relationship the more you match, but the question is if two people are siblings, not second cousins twice removed. You absolutely are wrong in advising anyone to use Family Finder to determine a sibling relationship.

If Family Finder worked for certifying sibling relationships, FTDNA would not advise you to go elsewhere. Common sense, if not science, should tell you that. The autosomal tests have the resolution needed for parentage and siblingship tests.

Many people don't want to certify a relationship. It's only necessary if you want a test that will hold up in court, for inheritance or some other purpose. If someone just wants to verify their research about a probable sibling, parent, etc., normal genealogical tests are more than sufficient, and a lot cheaper.

FTDNA SAYS ABOUT FAMILY FINDER VS PARENTAGE/SIBLINGSHIP TESTS:
Is this like autosomal parentage and siblingship tests? faq id: 799
Both tests use your autosomal DNA. However, there are notable differences between them. Parentage and siblingship tests use autosomal short tandem repeats (STRs). The Family Finder test uses single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). STRs provide more resolution per marker than SNPs. However, Family Finder test uses such a large number of SNPs that it is able to detect and calculate the degree of relationship for five generations.

FTDNA provides autosomal parentage and siblingship tests, but not for court purposes.

FTDNA might not, but you'll notice the copyright notice at the bottom of this page says "Genealogy by Genetics, Ltd.," which is the parent company of both FTDNA and their accredited lab that can do legal DNA tests, DNA Findings.

[JohnLloydScharf]

Family Finder is not for Determining a Sibling Relationship

My guess is you have made up your mind and are not going to let the facts get in the way. If you want a wild guess, use FF. If you want to know within a level of certainty, you take the autosomal tests.

I took them myself from FTDNA itself. They were bought through, done by, and paid for through FTDNA by FTDNA personel in the same place they did my mtDNA. I chose the term "certify" because it means to be certain, not to be proven in court. I am certain of the origin of my samples and I am certain of FTDNA's results. There is a level of CERTAINTY in population genetics due to the probability and statistics.

I was trying to find out more about my father by eliminating my mother's autosomal results from my father's. My mother is dead and the sample I got was not good enough for autosomal results. For these reasons, I know who did what and where because I was in regular email contact with the staff.

Now, to those others who need information, pay attention to what FTDNA says and do not assume what a test is for. If you are not sure, contact [email protected]

Many people don't want to certify a relationship. It's only necessary if you want a test that will hold up in court, for inheritance or some other purpose. If someone just wants to verify their research about a probable sibling, parent, etc., normal genealogical tests are more than sufficient, and a lot cheaper.


FTDNA might not, but you'll notice the copyright notice at the bottom of this page says "Genealogy by Genetics, Ltd.," which is the parent company of both FTDNA and their accredited lab that can do legal DNA tests, DNA Findings.

[efgen]

Yes, the closer the relationship the more you match, but the question is if two people are siblings, not second cousins twice removed. You absolutely are wrong in advising anyone to use Family Finder to determine a sibling relationship.

No, you are wrong. Half siblings should NOT be mistaken for 2nd cousins! Half siblings share approximately 25% of their DNA, while 2nd cousins share only approximately 3% of their DNA. HUGE difference. And 2nd cousins twice removed... they share less than 1%!

Half siblings *could* be mistaken for grandparent/grandchild, or aunt-uncle/niece-nephew relationships since those also share approximately 25% of their DNA. Maybe they could be mistaken for 1st cousins as well, although they should match approx 12.5%.

Q: What are the possible relationships for a Family Finder match?
A: See chart at this link:

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17#826

However, I do think we're getting into ridiculous semantics here because even if the original poster can't be 100% certain of his *exact* relationship with the other person he's testing, then at least having Family Finder determine that they're 1st cousins or closer certainly would indicate that he's found his biological father's family and is on the right track to proving the exact relationship.

STR-based autosomal tests aren't going to be any more accurate for HALF siblings. If the lab is testing for 30 STRs, then only 7-8 (approx 25%) would be expected to match for half siblings. Compare that to the ~175,000+ SNPs that should match for half-siblings on FF.

The bottom line is, STR-based siblingship tests are "conventional" siblingship tests that have been around since long before the SNP-chip technology that Family Finder uses. I would think SNP-chip tests will become the standard for siblingship and other close relationship tests eventually, but technology improvements happen much quicker than updates to standards, so that hasn't happened yet.

If Family Finder worked for certifying sibling relationships, FTDNA would not advise you to go elsewhere. Common sense, if not science, should tell you that. The autosomal tests have the resolution needed for parentage and siblingship tests.

As Nathan said above, nobody is looking to *certify* a sibling relationship here. For that, yes, you would certainly need an AABB accredited lab and a conventional STR-based siblingship test. But for the purpose of the original poster who asked this question, the Family Finder test is more than sufficient and even superior to the STR-based siblingship test.

Nathan also correctly stated that DNA Findings is not just some other company -- it's the AABB-accredited sister company of FTDNA. But again, the accredited test is only needed for legal purposes. It's certainly not needed for personal satisfaction of identifying a sibling.

Elise

PS. Two more links you can read through:

http://www.dna-testing-adviser.com/DNA-Kinship-Testing.html

http://www.dna-testing-adviser.com/DNASiblingTest.html

Be sure to read ALL the way through to where he says that Family Finder is now a better alternative to conventional siblingship test when not needed for legal purposes.