Ydna and snps What does it all mean

[Phil]

I wasn't sure where to post so I chose this site. Below are my haplogroup and tests I have taken. Each test came back negative and I don't know what that means. For example, does it mean I am not Irish, Scottish, Welsh, English or not something else? The negatives must mean something. Any help would be appreciated because I am a little frustrated. Thank you.

My haplogroup:
R1b1a2a1a1b4

Tests I have taken:
L21+ P66- M37- M222- L96- L226- L2- L195- L193- L192.1- L159.2- L144- L130- L1- P314.2-

[Brunetmj]

A haplogroup is like a tree with braches with each branch having a branch.
When they test the branches (SNP's) some don't go anywhere (they end). This is reported as a negative (-). They test another branch and report finding something , in your case a L21 and it is reported positive (+). There are a few branches below L21 so they are tested and came back - (you don't have that branch.
As I have been told you cannot really assign an ethnic group to a branch. It is true that the British isles have a heavy L 21 male poulation but they also exists on the European continent. I am an L21 who's ancestry is French

[JohnLloydScharf]

Your haplogroup is the most common one in the British Isles.
I suggest you set up an account with ysearch.org here:
http://www.ysearch.org/add_start.asp?uid=
I recommend you do a search after that using your haplotype [yDNA markers] rather than your haplogroup.

Why you had a M222 test, I will never know. Only one person I have seen has be positive for it and that was in a large database of Arabs who are J1c3d. Why would anyone who is R1b even be tested for that?

You are more likely to be a MacDonald of Scotland than a Al Sabah of Kuwaite.

I wasn't sure where to post so I chose this site. Below are my haplogroup and tests I have taken. Each test came back negative and I don't know what that means. For example, does it mean I am not Irish, Scottish, Welsh, English or not something else? The negatives must mean something. Any help would be appreciated because I am a little frustrated. Thank you.

My haplogroup:
R1b1a2a1a1b4

Tests I have taken:
L21+ P66- M37- M222- L96- L226- L2- L195- L193- L192.1- L159.2- L144- L130- L1- P314.2-

[gtc]

Why you had a M222 test, I will never know. Only one person I have seen has be positive for it and that was in a large database of Arabs who are J1c3d. Why would anyone who is R1b even be tested for that?

In the ISOGG tree, M222 denotes R1b1a2a1a1b4b, which is downstream from R-L21.

[JohnLloydScharf]

They list J1c3d2=L222.2 and most list it as L222. SO, I was unfamiliar and confused...

In the ISOGG tree, M222 denotes R1b1a2a1a1b4b, which is downstream from R-L21.

[Zaru]

It IS quite confusing for sure.

The snp/str is a way of discovering genetic "habits" within an individual. For example, let's take person A, and we'll call him Sean, give him a swab, and test his Y-DNA. Now, Sean has a family tree claiming them to be Irish in his father's line of descent. So scientists may be looking to predict a haplogroup of R1b.

When Sean's results are returned they read that he is indeed R1b Haplogroup, and his snp results claim that he is L21+. Now Sean can take confidence in his dna results vs. his family tree results, because an overwhelming amount of men who have tested from Ireland are also L21+. This is based on the SNP testing. It is all based on the theoretical possibilities of DNA results matching to one's family tree results and comparing them against the results within the context of the database.

The strs are helpful in PREDICTING a haplogroup (this can only be positively confirmed through snp testing), because each haplogroup contains "clustering" with certain loci within the Y strand. These values, once read and placed into clusters, will give scientists the ability to predict your haplogroup with confidence. To confirm this, one must submit a deep clade test to flesh out your snp- the values that confirm your place on the phylogenic tree, and ultimately (hopefully!) your human geography.

With that being said, any result simply cannot guarantee where your family lived or migrated from within the last 500 years. Really, only your paper trails can effectively establish that. These results, such as the snp, shows you where your relatives may have traversed 1000+ years ago. In the case of L21+, it's around 4000 years ago. So if you are looking for the ethnicity of your great great grandfather, I am not confident that SNP testing is entirely effective. On the other hand, with regard to your str values, this appears to be a more effective way of building relationships in the database. It is far easier to confirm relationships using the combination of str/snp, then either of them alone. IN this case they are symbiotic.

In summary, if you've had 67 markers tested, test + for R1b, L21+, AND are a mismatch of 1-2 in str testing with someone from Ireland, AND share the same SNP (L21), your ancestors were probably Irish, and you are probably kin.

[Phil]

I want to thank those who responded to my post. I have taken all the snp tests because they were recommended by FTDNA based on my Haplogroup designation. I have tested to the 111 marker with no matches. I have done snps, deep glade; in fact, I have taken every test recommened, even Family Finder. Do I blindly follow? I do have an account at Ysearch and Mitosearch. I have traced some of my ancestors back to Scotland, Ireland, Wales and England, none yet to Continental Europe. The one line I cannot trace back to Europe is my father's direct line. His line stops in Virginia. I imagine that for the purpose of ydna testing, it is my father's direct line that matters. Nothing is absolute: there were French in Scotland, Normans in England, etc. There is a Marr clan area in the far west of Aberdeenshire so I naively thought that a few tests would confirm my surname origin to that area. It didn't happen. My developing notion is that if one cannot truly determine ethnicity through dna testing, then testing is a fad that requires a great deal of time and energy, not to mention money, and it is something best left to the academicians and those who revel in the study of arcane data. Thank you.

[AJAskey]

Phil - what is your ySearch id? I can't believe you don't match anyone with that Haplogroup. If you post your id I can search using your markers.

[Brunetmj]

one cannot truly determine ethnicity through dna testing, then testing is a fad that requires a great deal of time and energy

Although I can identify with your thoughts it all really depends on what your expectations are.
I agree that DNA testing sites raise undo expectations with their ads. I to have no matches but there are many who do. Making it more worth their while. For me it is just another piece of evidence that in itself may not be useful but with other evidence from traditional genealogy makes a strong case. Also remember that there are haplotypes that can identify an ethnic group we are just not one of them.

[JohnLloydScharf]

Thank you.

Thank you for your participaton.

I want to thank those who responded to my post. I have taken all the snp tests because they were recommended by FTDNA based on my Haplogroup designation. I have tested to the 111 marker with no matches. I have done snps, deep glade; in fact, I have taken every test recommened, even Family Finder. Do I blindly follow? I do have an account at Ysearch and Mitosearch. I have traced some of my ancestors back to Scotland, Ireland, Wales and England, none yet to Continental Europe. The one line I cannot trace back to Europe is my father's direct line. His line stops in Virginia. I imagine that for the purpose of ydna testing, it is my father's direct line that matters. Nothing is absolute: there were French in Scotland, Normans in England, etc. There is a Marr clan area in the far west of Aberdeenshire so I naively thought that a few tests would confirm my surname origin to that area. It didn't happen. My developing notion is that if one cannot truly determine ethnicity through dna testing, then testing is a fad that requires a great deal of time and energy, not to mention money, and it is something best left to the academicians and those who revel in the study of arcane data. Thank you.