Someone had posted this on another testing site: very interesting
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No Extra Grasping or Walking Appendages
"60 out of three billion does not sound like I am going to grow an extra arm..."
At least that his how I responded to Bob May's posting of that in my DNA-Testing Yahoo Group:
It does not mention if these are SNiPs or allelles or genes.
"They looked at almost 6000 possible mutations in the genome sequences," hints they meant alleles, but it could have been genes.
SNPs are single basepairs. Alleles are multiple repetitions of a sequence of basepairs like we see in regard to the CODIS and yDNA markers. Genes are a very complex section of molecules designed for a biological purpose.
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For more analysis of the article, Razib and Dienekes both have commentary on it.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostIt does not mention if these are SNiPs or allelles or genes.
"They looked at almost 6000 possible mutations in the genome sequences," hints they meant alleles, but it could have been genes.
SNPs are single basepairs. Alleles are multiple repetitions of a sequence of basepairs like we see in regard to the CODIS and yDNA markers. Genes are a very complex section of molecules designed for a biological purpose.
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First, your "Razib" is actually Donald Conrad who says:
There’s a new letter in Nature Genetics on de novo mutations in humans which is sending the headline writers in the press into a natural frenzy trying to “hook” the results into the X-Men franchise. I implicitly assume most people understand that they all have new genetic mutations specific and identifiable to them. The important issue in relation to “mutants” as commonly understood is that they have salient identifiable phenotypes, not that they have subtle genetic variants which are invisible to us. Another implicit aspect is that phenotypes are an accurate signal or representation of high underlying mutational load. In other words, if you can see that someone is weird in their traits, presumably they are rather strange in their underlying genetics. This is the logic behind models which assume that mutational load has correlates with intelligence or beauty, and these naturally tie back into evolutionary rationales for human aesthetic preferences (e.g., “good genes” models of sexual selection).
I do not consider your other resource reputable.
I suspect he has the same issue with "6000 mutations" as I do.Last edited by Guest; 15 June 2011, 01:51 PM.
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STRs are also alleles of a marker.
Not all changes in alleles make a difference in genetic outcomes. If you change a gene, it does. A SNP is just a single nucleotide out of an allele, whch may, or may not be, a short tandem repeat.
The human genome has three billion basepairs. A change in one is a SNP. A change in a group is an allele, which may or may not be a STR. A change in a gene is likely a change in function. All are mutations. If you have 6,000 basepairs change out of 3 billion, it is not significant. If you have 6,000 GENES change, that could be real trouble.
Last edited by Guest; 15 June 2011, 02:01 PM.
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Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostFirst, your "Razib" is actually Donald Conrad who says:
...
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostI do not consider your other resource reputable.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostSTRs are also alleles of a marker.
Not all changes in alleles make a difference in genetic outcomes. If you change a gene, it does. A SNP is just a single nucleotide out of an allele, whch may, or may not be, a short tandem repeat.
The human genome has three billion basepairs. A change in one is a SNP. A change in a group is an allele, which may or may not be a STR. A change in a gene is likely a change in function. All are mutations.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostIf you have 6,000 basepairs change out of 3 billion, it is not significant. If you have 6,000 GENES change, that could be real trouble.
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Dienekes said “They are not amateurs. They are far from being amateurs.”
Bahar did not say that about Dienekes. Dienekes said that about Donald Conrad.
There are plenty of racist bloggers with many thousand pages. Being prolific about posting the peer reviewed papers of others does not lend any credibility to his arguments. It is not that he contradicts the current theories. It is that he presents faulty arguments using statistics for purposes and comes to conclusions that were not intended by the researchers.
Ultimately, I believe he, or she, has no education in research design, probability and statistics, anthropology, or molecular biology. Since she/he writes under a pseudonym with no credentials to boot, he/she has no credibility.
I consider this blog disreputable because the writer of it claims there is a scientific basis for race.
If you want to believe in that mumbo jumbo, that is fine. You can start reading Storm Front. I suspect you will feel at home with them.
I base everything on genetics. If there is four races, then there are a million of them.
Tasting bitter, having a blood typed, and Human leukocyte antigen types is just as valid, if not more so, than the amount of pigment in your hair, eyes, and skin.
You could claim every yDNA and mtDNA haplogroup is a race as well. How about hat size? I wear a 7 and a half hat. How about the size of arms and legs. I have 36 inch sleeves and inseam. SO, am I a prospective SS, the Elite Guard?
The Nazis were so wrong about this issue they made a Jew, Warner Goldberg, their poster boy as an ideal Aryan. Too late! The posters were out when they found out. Hitler declared Goldberg to be an Aryan to avoid the propaganda issues.
On journalist who typed Hitler's relatives in the US reports the results were E1b1b for the yDNA of the offspring of a nephew in his patriarchal lineage.
I dared the 2011 Census by refusing to complete the form. They came to my place several times attempting to intimidate me into responding. They dared not take me to court on the issue, as I had hoped for.
SO, no. Dienekes has no credibility at all as far as I am concerned. Zero. Zip. Nada.
Originally posted by nathanm View PostNo, Donald Conrad was the lead author of the original letter in Nature Genetics referenced by both Razib's post and the article at the top of this thread. The paragraph you quoted is entirely Razib's writing.
Are you saying you know more than Dienekes? He has a couple thousand blog posts over the past seven years, in which he's demonstrated he knows what he's talking about. He may entertain some theories that oppose the current fashion within the scientific community, but that doesn't make him disreputable. His work got a rather glowing review in Nature News. On what do you base your opinion?
That doesn't make any sense. Alleles aren't changes. They're the possible values of a SNP or gene, or range of possible repeats of a STR. In a SNP where C is sometimes substituted for T, the possible alleles are CC, CT, and TT. If a STR can repeat between 5-10 times, the possible alleles are 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10. Genes are more complex, but alleles are just the different forms of that gene.
Agreed.Last edited by Guest; 5 July 2011, 01:19 AM.
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Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostDienekes said "They are not amateurs. They are far from being amateurs."
Bahar did not say that about Dienekes. Dienekes said that about Donald Conrad.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostThere are plenty of racist bloggers with many thousand pages. Being prolific about posting the peer reviewed papers of others does not lend any credibility to his arguments. It is not that he contradicts the current theories. It is that he presents faulty arguments using statistics for purposes and comes to conclusions that were not intended by the researchers.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostUltimately, I believe he, or she, has no education in research design, probability and statistics, anthropology, or molecular biology. Since she/he writes under a pseudonym with no credentials to boot, he/she has no credibility.
I consider this blog disreputable because the writer of it claims there is a scientific basis for race.
If you want to believe in that mumbo jumbo, that is fine. You can start reading Storm Front. I suspect you will feel at home with them.
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Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostDienekes said "They are not amateurs. They are far from being amateurs."
Bahar did not say that about Dienekes. Dienekes said that about Donald Conrad.
"They are not amateurs. They are far from being amateurs," says Doron Behar, a population geneticist at Rambam Health Care Campus in Haifa, Israel, who studies human history. "I cannot stress enough the level of appreciation I have for their efforts."
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostThere are plenty of racist bloggers with many thousand pages. Being prolific about posting the peer reviewed papers of others does not lend any credibility to his arguments. It is not that he contradicts the current theories. It is that he presents faulty arguments using statistics for purposes and comes to conclusions that were not intended by the researchers.
Ultimately, I believe he, or she, has no education in research design, probability and statistics, anthropology, or molecular biology. Since she/he writes under a pseudonym with no credentials to boot, he/she has no credibility.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostI consider this blog disreputable because the writer of it claims there is a scientific basis for race.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostIf you want to believe in that mumbo jumbo, that is fine. You can start reading Storm Front. I suspect you will feel at home with them.
I base everything on genetics. If there is four races, then there are a million of them.
Tasting bitter, having a blood typed, and Human leukocyte antigen types is just as valid, if not more so, than the amount of pigment in your hair, eyes, and skin.
You could claim every yDNA and mtDNA haplogroup is a race as well. How about hat size? I wear a 7 and a half hat. How about the size of arms and legs. I have 36 inch sleeves and inseam. SO, am I a prospective SS, the Elite Guard?
The Nazis were so wrong about this issue they made a Jew, Warner Goldberg, their poster boy as an ideal Aryan. Too late! The posters were out when they found out. Hitler declared Goldberg to be an Aryan to avoid the propaganda issues.
On journalist who typed Hitler's relatives in the US reports the results were E1b1b for the yDNA of the offspring of a nephew in his patriarchal lineage.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostI dared the 2011 Census by refusing to complete the form. They came to my place several times attempting to intimidate me into responding. They dared not take me to court on the issue, as I had hoped for.
Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View PostSO, no. Dienekes has no credibility at all as far as I am concerned. Zero. Zip. Nada.
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