Why don't Indian Tribes in the US test their DNA??

[deniseneufeld]

That's the truth especially if they want to belong to an organized tribe. I think it
is really sad the politics that has become part of the organized tribes in North America.

I think a lot of American Indians don't want to dna test because they feel they already know who they are and don't need to prove it to anyone. Unfortunately, Indians are the only ones who have to prove who they are.

If a person tells you he is white, you accept that at face value. Not so for Indians. Just my opinion.

[Wilma Wildcat]

Oh, yeah; it's politics. I'm from Arizona; and two Arizona tribes, the Navajo and Hopi, had a land dispute for like 40 years. In efforts to establish who owns what, DNA and archeology can indicate that Hopis have been in the area longer than Navajos, for example.

To me that makes no difference, since Navajos have been there plenty long enough to make a claim, IMO. But that's one case in point for a reason tribes don't want to be tested. If you'd like an interesting and intriguing story including the subject, try Tony Hillerman's Navajo Tribal Police novel, "The Dark Wind."

[Yaffa]

Some are mixed so it would be harder to read their DNA. Even though they are not giving up their DNA for what ever reason, Mexico is and they are governed by no one so they dont have to worry about the government taking away anything. The Mex government does that anyway to all in Mex and why they are coming over here. The Pima have given up their DNA for the past 30 years because of Diabetes

The ones that dont match Indigenous in Mex with the samples they do have for PF and also the indigenous in Mex are given high % of Russian/Finnish which is Sibera

[Wilma Wildcat]

The Lake Baikal DNA... Well, this response is the same one developed over time of being studied in other ways, too, by sociologists, anthropologists, etc. I'm recalling Byrd Baylor's classic book, "Yes is Better Than No."

She says, "...One thing all the Papago people in these stories know about surviving in an Arizona city run by white people: "They have each learned long ago to try to give answers which will most please the questioner. At times this is hard to figure out, but they try... Another thing. If a yes or no answer is required, they try to say yes..."

IIRC, if you answer, "no," then the questioner goes on and asks you more questions. If you say, "yes," then they move along faster with the survey.

[Peacock100]

Why don't Indian Tribes in the US test their DNA?? One genealogist told me that
Indian Tribe members in the US won't have their DNA tested, does anyone know why?

Why should they?

[deniseneufeld]

Yep, that is what I get, do you know if there is a company that does more specific testing for finding if you come from a certain tribe?

No, Population Finder can only tell you that you have a certain percentage of Native American ancestry fairly accurately, but it can't tell you what particular tribe because they have a limited number of NA tribes as references. So you'll most likely get variation of Pima, Maya or Columbia regardless of where in the Americas your original tribe was from.

[Native]

Why don't Indian Tribes in the US test their DNA?? One genealogist told me that
Indian Tribe members in the US won't have their DNA tested, does anyone know why?

I guess it is because they know deep within themselves that the genetic testing would basically prove them wrong. In the US you have people that are at least 75 % Caucasian who claim that they are African American, and there are also people who are at least 75 % Caucasian who claim they are Native American. The reason people hold onto false identity, is probably special rights and affirmative action. Here in Norway, you get a lot of special rights if you claim that you are Sami, for instance the right to drive snow scooter everywhere.

[deniseneufeld]

ha ha, sounds like fun!!

I guess it is because they know deep within themselves that the genetic testing would basically prove them wrong. In the US you have people that are at least 75 % Caucasian who claim that they are African American, and there are also people who are at least 75 % Caucasian who claim they are Native American. The reason people hold onto false identity, is probably special rights and affirmative action. Here in Norway, you get a lot of special rights if you claim that you are Sami, for instance the right to drive snow scooter everywhere.

[Brunetmj]

n who claim they are Native American. The reason people hold onto false identity, is probably special rights and affirmative action. Here in Norway, you get a lot of special rights if you claim that you are Sami, for instance the right to drive snow scooter everywhere.

The US governments policy and tribal policy is basically your name, through your ancestors name , have to be on official Tribal documents. The government argues that ancestry is a matter of traditions and heritage not DNA . In theory I could test as 100% native American on both paternal and maternal side and not be considered native American either by the tribes or the goverment.
Look at this way , if I had oriental facial features but a French tradition does testing change anything? If my DNA shows far east ancestry does it stop me from being French?

[Cats]

The US governments policy and tribal policy is basically your name, through your ancestors name , have to be on official Tribal documents. The government argues that ancestry is a matter of traditions and heritage not DNA . In theory I could test as 100% native American on both paternal and maternal side and not be considered native American either by the tribes or the goverment.Look at this way , if I had oriental facial features but a French tradition does testing change anything? If my DNA shows far east ancestry does it stop me from being French?

The difference is that Native American is a race and French is a nationality. I have a friend whose spouse and children are part of a recognized tribe. The last full blooded member of the tribe lived at about 140 years ago. A lot of blending has happened since then. My friend's children are pretty diluted. My friend is 50% Irish and 50% English, her NA spouse has a father that is 50% Irish and 50% German. His mother is about 50% NA. The children and NA parent only want to recognize their NA ancestry. I am doing some family tree research with my friend and her children disregard any part of her family line. They say they are NA. They obviously know that the majority of their DNA/ancestry is not NA. I don't know how much DNA one needs to have to be a considered a certain race. In reality they are more Caucasian than NA as far a race is concerned even though their birth certificate says they are NA. They live just like me and my family. In my opinion there is a difference between a race of people and customs and traditions that some people live by.

[ekc123]

The difference is that Native American is a race and French is a nationality. I have a friend whose spouse and children are part of a recognized tribe. The last full blooded member of the tribe lived at about 140 years ago. A lot of blending has happened since then. My friend's children are pretty diluted. My friend is 50% Irish and 50% English, her NA spouse has a father that is 50% Irish and 50% German. His mother is about 50% NA. The children and NA parent only want to recognize their NA ancestry. I am doing some family tree research with my friend and her children disregard any part of her family line. They say they are NA. They obviously know that the majority of their DNA/ancestry is not NA. I don't know how much DNA one needs to have to be a considered a certain race. In reality they are more Caucasian than NA as far a race is concerned even though their birth certificate says they are NA. They live just like me and my family. In my opinion there is a difference between a race of people and customs and traditions that some people live by.

In my opinion, being Native American involves a combination of factors. Certainly the ancestry aspect can be tested through DNA, but the heritage part involves customs, culture, and traditions. I have a Native American friend who is very active in his tribe and he has grown up practicing the various rites and traditions that are a part of his culture. To me, that is the heritage part of it. In other words, "race" is partly a question of DNA and tracing one's ancestry, but it is also largely a social construct as is "nationality." Many Native Americans undoubtedly belong to the same DNA haplogroups, but are members of different tribes with their own special heritage, history, and traditions. My friend's tribe (Navajo) has its own ceremony associated with coming of age, and other tribes undoubtedly have their own traditions in this respect, regardless of what haplogroup to which they happen to belong.

[ekc123]

The US governments policy and tribal policy is basically your name, through your ancestors name , have to be on official Tribal documents. The government argues that ancestry is a matter of traditions and heritage not DNA . In theory I could test as 100% native American on both paternal and maternal side and not be considered native American either by the tribes or the goverment.
Look at this way , if I had oriental facial features but a French tradition does testing change anything? If my DNA shows far east ancestry does it stop me from being French?

It is my understanding that each tribe has its own specific rules for admittance to the tribe, which are separate from official US government recognition of an individual as a tribal member. In my state, the Navajo tribe has its own court system (including an appellate court system) and its members are largely governed by tribal law, which I believe trumps even state law so long as it is within an area where the tribe has jurisdiction, ie, tribal lands.

[Yaffa]

It is my understanding that each tribe has its own specific rules for admittance to the tribe, which are separate from official US government recognition of an individual as a tribal member. In my state, the Navajo tribe has its own court system (including an appellate court system) and its members are largely governed by tribal law, which I believe trumps even state law so long as it is within an area where the tribe has jurisdiction, ie, tribal lands.

The Federal Tribes are Sovereign Nations (They operate like their own state) and like all states we have the federal government over us. The BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) oversees the Sovereign Indian Nations. Each Nation has their own rules of enrollment and government.

[ekc123]

The Federal Tribes are Sovereign Nations (They operate like their own state) and like all states we have the federal government over us. The BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) oversees the Sovereign Indian Nations. Each Nation has their own rules of enrollment and government.

Exactly, but with the caveat that they are still subject to federal jurisdiction in some instances. And, I'm not sure about this, but I believe one can, for example, be recognized by the US government as Native American for the purposes of certain federal programs without being officially being recognized by a tribe. I know some of the tribes in my state recently changed their membership requirements because they wanted to retain more folks in the tribe. I believe they increased the blood quantum requirements in the case I read about in the news. The other limitation on their sovereignty is that they oftentimes cannot try non-members for crimes committed within their jurisdiction. I believe they should have this authority, but the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise. But, that is a whole other matter not within the realm of the original post.

[ekc123]

I got cutoff on my edit time, but I was going to add in addressing the original post that I'm not really sure why testing for Native American ancestry is not frequent, if indeed that is the case, but it could have to do with the fact that some of the tribes keep very detailed genealogical records and have their own testing programs and protocol so that commercial testing is not needed.