Haplogroup change?

[nagten]

I recently ordered the Family finder + ydna 12 marker package.
I was surprised when about a week later the ydna results were posted.
My predicted haplogroup was R1b1b2. Since my male line paper trail traced to Clare and Limerick I ordered the L226 snp test for Irish type iii.
About three weeks later the Family finder results were posted. Much to my surprise my haplogroup prediction had changed to R1b1a2. The result of the L226 snp test was negative.
I'm confused and a bit miffed.

[rainbow]

There is a new thread on the forum by efgen titled Haplotree Update.
FTDNA is updating/renaming YDNA. If they didn't send an email beforehand to explain why, they should have. I would be miffed too.

[Jim Barrett]

Admins received a notice which said in part, "We are excited to announce that we have updated our Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree to reflect new haplogroup sub-branches!

Family Tree DNA, in partnership with the YCC, periodically reviews known SNPs in order to evaluate those that meet the requirements to be added to the haplotree. The SNPs that passed this review are now included in the haplotree and considered for deep clade testing."

I sent this to my project members. If you didn't receive the information be miffed at your admin, not FTDNA. If you aren't in a project be miffed at yourself.

We all need to remember we are dealing with bleeding edge science. Things change

[Brunetmj]

I for one respect the professionalism and integrity of FTDNA.
However one has to appreciate the fact that FTDNA does not exist in isolation of the internet community. If my haplotype changes from F150 to WD40 on this site I cannot do an internet search on WD40.
I am a big supporter of bleeding edge technogoy but bear in mind I paid $400 to get useful and fully exploitable information. All I would ask is that these changes be fully explained in a readable fashion and placed in a area on the site where they can easily be found.

[rainbow]

An email should have been sent to every person who was YDNA tested, not just Project Administrators, explaining the change. And an explaination should be on everyone's personal page (home page). And it should have an easy-to-understand explanation for the layman/average person, not just what JimBarrett quoted and posted, which even I don't understand. And it wouldn't hurt to have the news of the update on the main page (if it isn't there).

And for Project Administrators in general, I am only in mtdna-related projects (I re-joined) and none of them has ever sent me an email, not even a "welcome to the project" email, except for an email about a discount for a webinar.

[aeduna]

I for one respect the professionalism and integrity of FTDNA.
However one has to appreciate the fact that FTDNA does not exist in isolation of the internet community. If my haplotype changes from F150 to WD40 on this site I cannot do an internet search on WD40.

Er, this isn't FTDNA making a random internal change - in fact, its them bringing their information in line with the YCC tree. You'll find your information is more comparable now.

I believe that the changes happen because as more people are sampled, more accurate information is revealed about the nature of the y-chromosome. So if the initial research says mutation Y222 seems to indicate a new haplogroup amongst these 20 people, and a year later it turns out that having sampled another 40 people that that mutation is not actuall representational of the group, you may need to reorder the tree.

This is why people sometimes list their actual mutation markers rather than the haplogroup. If I say G-P203, even if that changes from G2a3b1 to G2d, the P203 will still be valid.

I
I am a big supporter of bleeding edge technogoy but bear in mind I paid $400 to get useful and fully exploitable information. All I would ask is that these changes be fully explained in a readable fashion and placed in a area on the site where they can easily be found.

Yes, that is a more than fair request. I think that perhaps the original poster has had bad luck in that the predicted (not confirmed) haplogroup turned out to be different. On the other hand, doing one best-bet SNP test rather than a deep clade test is making a bet that the prediction was right and hoping to save the money on a deep clade test.

[Brunetmj]

This is why people sometimes list their actual mutation markers rather than the haplogroup.

Yes while researching I found beginning the search with the main haplotype followed by the shorthand mutation markers yields far more useful information. While researching and being new at this I wasn't getting very far with full haplotype information. Consequently I wasn't sure what the issue was, here or the Internet information

[rivergirl]

I recently ordered the Family finder + ydna 12 marker package.
I was surprised when about a week later the ydna results were posted.
My predicted haplogroup was R1b1b2. Since my male line paper trail traced to Clare and Limerick I ordered the L226 snp test for Irish type iii.
About three weeks later the Family finder results were posted. Much to my surprise my haplogroup prediction had changed to R1b1a2. The result of the L226 snp test was negative.
I'm confused and a bit miffed.

As other have mentioned FTDNA have just updated their haplogoup tree inline with recent new SNP discoveries. R1b12 became R1b1a2 etc..

As for your SNP test, did your ydna results match the Irish Type 3 modal haplotype? Having ancestry from Limerick/Clare does not mean you automatically will be a particular subgroup of R1b, like Irish Type 3.
I have a family line from County Clare and they are plain R1b L21, testing negative for all downstream SNP, like L226, 159.2, L144 etc...
Have you compared your results with the various R1b modal haplotypes to see which one your most like.
If you have a ysearch entry we may be able to look at your results and offer opinions on which subgroup you may be closest to.

You could also ask your project admin if any of your matches in your project have been SNP tested and what results they have.

[nagten]

Many thanks for all of your interesting ang helpful comments. I have taken a bit of time to educate myself in the mysterys of Haplogroups.
I will admit to a leap of faith in ordering the L226 snip test. So yes, I am more miffed at myself. It did turn-out negative but this simply turns my interest to Galway and Rosscommon where my surname Naughton is much more prevalent. I have not yet joined a project but have a Ysearch Id.
It is B3P2F.
Again, thanks for your comments.

[nagten]

I think I have it. The Haplogroup R seems Golden. Maybe. Although it is a statistical thing based on sample size, allegedly hundreds of thousands. Anything downstream from R may suffer from sample size. Note the many folks changed from R1b1b2 to R1b1a2. One wonders is R1b1 safe?
Ancestry wants to know!

[Cromdubh]

Haplogroup alteration?

I recently ordered the Family finder + ydna 12 marker package.
I was surprised when about a week later the ydna results were posted.
My predicted haplogroup was R1b1b2. Since my male line paper trail traced to Clare and Limerick I ordered the L226 snp test for Irish type iii.
About three weeks later the Family finder results were posted. Much to my surprise my haplogroup prediction had changed to R1b1a2. The result of the L226 snp test was negative.
I'm confused and a bit miffed.

I've just discovered that my confirmed haplogroup has been changed from R1b1b2a1a4 (I have the certificate) to R1b1a2a1a4.
Needless to say this has altered my assumptions in a major way.
Seemingly as a result I am being offered a further deep clade test for new branches of the haplotree. Talk about "The higher up the berry tree etc.,
I wonder if they have changed their nomenclature?

[nagten]

Hmm. You cannot move downstream R1b1b2****** to R1b1a2******. The snips would not be right.

[nagten]

Let me tell you this. When my predicted Haplogroup was R1b1b2, FTDNA offered a deep clade test. Things changed.
My predicted Haplogroup is now R1b1a2. No deep clade test is offered.
It follows that snips that may have 'proved' membership in R1b1b2 are now un-certain if not totally false.
FTDNA is in total dis-array. It may be that they did not expect the huge flood of new data from the Family finder + Ydna12 package sale.
FTDNA seems to employ some very smart people. Unfortunately not in there home page design.

[Cromdubh]

I for one respect the professionalism and integrity of FTDNA.
However one has to appreciate the fact that FTDNA does not exist in isolation of the internet community. If my haplotype changes from F150 to WD40 on this site I cannot do an internet search on WD40.
I am a big supporter of bleeding edge technogoy but bear in mind I paid $400 to get useful and fully exploitable information. All I would ask is that these changes be fully explained in a readable fashion and placed in a area on the site where they can easily be found.

Right on!
I'm a bit peeved being asked to pay for another deep clade test just because they changed their nomenclature.
Not to mention all those sites where, for better or worse, I followed up what was then my Haplogroup.
I never felt much like a Friesian anyway!
So there!

[Brunetmj]

Anyone experience strange happenings on their haplogroup today ?
I logged on and clicked on haplogroup. My R1b1a2 M 269 was replaced with R1b1a2a1a1a8 R-L257.
When I followed the tree going to R it just went to M 269. I refreshed the page and the haplotype was back to where it was M269.
I cleared my cache went back in and it remained the same. Did anyone have an issue or should I have skipped the 2 nd cup of coffee? I do have a deep clade on order but that's not due for a month.