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No haplotype prediction at yDNA12 markers?

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  • T E Peterman
    replied
    The new haplotree may have somewhat different nomenclature, so don't be surprised if M269* shifts from R1b1b2 to something that looks a bit different.

    To be consistent, the best description for what use to be R1b1b2 is R M269+ (which includes all men who contain the M269 mutation & all downstream subclades). By contrast R M269* means the subject has been tested for all downstream subclades & belongs to done; a phenomenon which is quite rare.

    Timothy Peterman

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  • efgen
    replied
    Originally posted by edshazell View Post
    Got my first 12 Y-DNA results a few days ago then yesterday I seemed to get random Haplogroups on my Haplotree page for several hours now I have just a blank - in the Haplogroup box, do I have to get a deep clade test done or will a result appear once more marker results are posted?
    Ed,

    FTDNA just made a major update to their Haplotree yesterday, and as a result, all the predictions are being re-run. I'm told it could take up to 24 hours for all the predictions to be in place again. So give it another day or so and see what happens. If you still don't have a predicted haplogroup by Monday, then you may want to contact FTDNA to inquire about it.

    More markers won't change your haplogroup prediction -- they only use the first 12 markers for the predictions.

    Elise

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  • edshazell
    replied
    Forgot to say I have paid for the full 67 Y-DNA test

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  • edshazell
    replied
    Got my first 12 Y-DNA results a few days ago then yesterday I seemed to get random Haplogroups on my Haplotree page for several hours now I have just a blank - in the Haplogroup box, do I have to get a deep clade test done or will a result appear once more marker results are posted?

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  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by Brunetmj View Post
    Thank You. I guess I dint understand the change from R1b1b2 to R1b1a2 within a few days of each other. I did order the deep clade test. I don't know why as I am reasonably sure my ancestors are from France. Intrigued I guess.
    If your paternal line is from France, the deep clade test won't necessarily confirm that. Haplogroups and their subclades, in general, don't give you any sort of certainty about the origin of the paternal line. Yes, someone in the A haplogroup probably has a paternal line from sub-Saharan Africa, while someone in a subclade of R1b1b2 probably has European ancestry, but there are exceptions to the general rule.

    Knowing your subclade of R1b1b2 does not necessarily tell you from which nation of Europe your paternal line is, although it may give you a clue in some situations, based on probability. For instance, if your line is from France, your deep clade results could easily tell you that you're R1b-U106, R1b-L48 (downstream from U106), R1b-P312, R1b-L21 or R1b-U152 (both downstream from P312). All five SNPs are fairly common in various parts of France. In the case of R1b-U106 or R1b-L48, that would point more toward northern France, while in the case of R1b-U152, that would point more toward eastern France, in the Alsace-Lorraine area. However, that's not written in stone, just based on probability.
    Last edited by MMaddi; 5 March 2011, 11:39 AM.

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  • Brunetmj
    replied
    Thank You. I guess I dint understand the change from R1b1b2 to R1b1a2 within a few days of each other. I did order the deep clade test. I don't know why as I am reasonably sure my ancestors are from France. Intrigued I guess.

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  • aeduna
    replied
    Originally posted by edshazell View Post
    I do understand that the Results of the tests are different I was more interested in the actual test that is done, is a deep clade a rerun of your swab?
    woops, sorry, i misunderstood. All other things being equal, they run additional tests on the swabs you have done.

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  • edshazell
    replied
    I do understand that the Results of the tests are different I was more interested in the actual test that is done, is a deep clade a rerun of your swab?

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  • aeduna
    replied
    Originally posted by edshazell View Post
    Just a general question on the deep clade test, if you have tested for Y-Dna 67 markers and have the results is the deep clade some sort of re-run in the lab of your original sample or is it a computer run of existing results already obtained?

    Ed
    They're two different types of test. The deep clade test is aimed at precisely finding your haplotype (roughly, what branch of y-chromosome descent you originate from), whereas the 67 marker test is aimed at trying to find currently alive individuals who share similar chunks of DNA.

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  • edshazell
    replied
    Just a general question on the deep clade test, if you have tested for Y-Dna 67 markers and have the results is the deep clade some sort of re-run in the lab of your original sample or is it a computer run of existing results already obtained?

    Ed

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  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by Brunetmj View Post
    My update now gives me a haplotype of R1b1a2 (M269). I have no matches at 25 markers and cannot find much information on this haplotype. I am sure it is European but is it common to any particular country or is it just scattered throughout Europe?
    R1b-M269 is the most generic description for the most common haplogroup among men with European ancestry. Since you haven't had the deep clade test, they can only give you the most generic prediction, based on your close matches who have had the deep clade test. It's likely that all your close matches are some form of R1b-M269, so they predict that you must be too.

    It's the case that most European men who are M269+ are also positive for SNPs that are downstream from M269 (U106 or P312). That's established by the deep clade test. Since you haven't had the deep clade test, they can't reliably predict if you're U106+, P312+ or negative for both. A deep clade test confirms these SNPs with certainty; a deep clade test is not a prediction, which is what you have now.

    In general, R1b-U106 is found at its highest levels in northern Europe. In the case of R1b-P312, it's found at decent levels throughout Europe. The deep clade test will also tell you if you're positive for SNPs that are downstream from U106 and P312. For instance, L21 is downstream from P312 and is found at high levels in the British Isles, northern France and Germany, but not solely there. And M222 is downstream from L21 and is found at high levels in Ireland.

    If it's important for you to know this sort of information, then you'll have to order the deep clade test.
    Last edited by MMaddi; 4 March 2011, 11:58 PM.

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  • Brunetmj
    replied
    My update now gives me a haplotype of R1b1a2 (M269). I have no matches at 25 markers and cannot find much information on this haplotype. I am sure it is European but is it common to any particular country or is it just scattered throughout Europe?

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  • Javelin
    replied
    No, they only confirm once you take an actual SNP or Deep Clade test. But if they predict R1b1b2 it's pretty much certain. The question is precisely what kind, though -- there's a huge difference, for example, between R1b1b2a* (R-L23) and R1b1b2a1b4c (R-L2 or R-S139).

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  • Brunetmj
    replied
    Thank You. I will likely wait till my 37 marker test is back. I assume that moves things from predicted to confirmed?

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  • Javelin
    replied
    R1b1b2 is very well suited to a Deep Clade, but if you create a Ysearch account and post it, someone here might also be able to predict your subclade, or advise you further.

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