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  • help needed from the experts

    I have recently started to try to find my birth farther. I did the ydna37 first and found my dna matched several Harpers.Then I asked several relatives included the man I took my name from who it may be without revealing the match till afterwards.They all gave me the name of who they suspected with the last name Harper.So I found he had past a couple years ago, I did find his brother and did a avunclar test with GTLDna and only got a 27% match.Then me and him did a ytest with gtldna and missed on one marker(dys389-2)his was 30 mine 29 with a 95% cofindence results.Everything I have read on the net usually has a mismatch on dys389-1 to mismatch on 389-2.Now I have also been in contact with my suspected half brother and he did the ydna 37 on ftdna also and we also missed by one marker,Probably the same marker and same miss.What would be the likelihood of me having a mutation? Should I do a siblingship test? There is also another half brother from a different mother that is younger,should I test with him? Please help how I could figure this out,I really want to know if he was my father or is this just somekind of close relative or match.Thanks for all info that you can provide.

  • #2
    Unfortunately, the test of the Y chromosome cannot say much on your question. It can zoom in on the right lineage, but it cannot be this specific. You could match an individual and yet the common ancestor could be hundreds of years away. And random mutations do happen, so it is very possible that two brothers have a mismatch of one. (Also, it depends on how many markers you have tested). Testing an additional person wouldn't add much to what you know.

    I am not familiar with the GTLDna test you mention (ie the 27% match), but in general, these companies have tests that work pretty well for a parent-child relation (in other words, if you had your father to test, you could probably purchase a test for under $200 that gave a very precise yes-no result). But they work much less for siblings. As you move away from father-son relationships, you need a big number of markers to make a precise prediction.

    Tests like Family Finder or 23andme test so many locations throughout the DNA that they are able to establish whether two people are brothers, half brothers, cousins, and the like. Unfortunately, they are very expensive.

    cacio

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    • #3
      I would recommend that all of you do the FTDNA Family Finder test. Call FTDNA and see if they will offer you a discount for multiple kits. Don't know if they will, but you don't know until you ask. This test should identify your relationship to eachother, like the previous poster said.

      There is also a small company who offers DNA testing specifically for adoptees called Adoption DNA Matching. That test is $99.00. You could contact them and ask them if they have a test that is appropriate for your situation.

      Link removed

      Hope this helps.

      Judy
      Last edited by Darren; 20 December 2010, 05:07 PM. Reason: Please no links to outside companies

      Comment


      • #4
        You might consider http://www.dnafindings.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          My brother and uncle have two mismatches between them.

          Mutations have to happen somewhere, so its possible it happened in you or your dad.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi bouvier

            I totally agree with cacio with testing Family Finder or 23andMe for finding close relatives. Whichever you decide to do there are free respected databases that can compare both companies results.

            I have a 3rd cousin who suspects he is a Harper, but doesn't know his parents either!! I apologise if this is you


            Originally posted by bouvier View Post
            I did the ydna37 first and found my dna matched several Harpers.They all gave me the name of who they suspected with the last name Harper.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by nolnacsj View Post
              I would recommend that all of you do the FTDNA Family Finder test. Call FTDNA and see if they will offer you a discount for multiple kits. Don't know if they will, but you don't know until you ask. This test should identify your relationship to each other, like the previous poster said.

              There is also a small company who offers DNA testing specifically for adoptees called Adoption DNA Matching. That test is $99.00. You could contact them and ask them if they have a test that is appropriate for your situation.

              http://adoptiondnamatching.vpweb.com/

              Hope this helps.

              Judy
              I suspect the Adoption DNA Matching site is using the same standard set of paternity testing markers that GTLDna does. The registry could be fruitful if the father and son happen to be seeking each other, but it wouldn't add anything to the avuncular calculations.

              I agree that using Family Finder and/or Relative Finder is the best bet. You could find connections to cousins in any line of descent, not limited to the Y.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bouvier View Post
                I have recently started to try to find my birth farther. I did the ydna37 first and found my dna matched several Harpers.Then I asked several relatives included the man I took my name from who it may be without revealing the match till afterwards.They all gave me the name of who they suspected with the last name Harper.So I found he had past a couple years ago, I did find his brother and did a avunclar test with GTLDna and only got a 27% match.Then me and him did a ytest with gtldna and missed on one marker(dys389-2)his was 30 mine 29 with a 95% cofindence results.Everything I have read on the net usually has a mismatch on dys389-1 to mismatch on 389-2.Now I have also been in contact with my suspected half brother and he did the ydna 37 on ftdna also and we also missed by one marker,Probably the same marker and same miss.What would be the likelihood of me having a mutation? Should I do a siblingship test? There is also another half brother from a different mother that is younger,should I test with him? Please help how I could figure this out,I really want to know if he was my father or is this just somekind of close relative or match.Thanks for all info that you can provide.

                I would think that the test match with your purported Uncle and half brother would be enough.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Congratulations on your find. If you, this putatative uncle and half-brother have all Y tested at least 37 markers, and mismatch at only 1 marker, I think you can reasonably concluded that the story is true, and that you have identified the correct lineage. I see no reason to test further.


                  As the previous response noted, DNA is random, and at 37 markers it is not at all unheard of for very close relatives to have a Y mismatch or two. I mismatch my own brother at #18, so no big whoop. It's true--mutations are pretty much random, and there's no way to get more specific about it than a simple comparison to the # of mismatches per the # of markers tested and making a general estimate--which does indeed have a margin of error of a couple hundred years +/-.

                  I've never heard of the other test you mentioned, but it doesn't seem to me to be really relevant. The Y chromo testing is the simplest, most basic test out on the market and has been time tested and is approved for use in courts. I am rather leery about the claims of these other autosomal tests for determining relatedness. Apart from a large # of clerical errors which I personally have heard of anecdotally, and the fact that autosomal DNA is even more random than the Y stuff, the fact is you're trying to hone in on your direct paternal line, and the most relevant test available is also the oldest and most time-tested--a high resolution Y of 37 markers or more.

                  That said, the previous commentor was also right to caution that the Y chromo test cannot say for certain whether your biological father was a specific individual--only to provide relative probability of belonging to a specific male lineage. Which you seem to have proven very neatly here. From this point you just have to examine the other, non-genetic evidence, and make your conclusion based on a preponderance of the evidence, rather than arriving at some absolute, 100% guaranteed conclusion.

                  But the odds really do seem in favour of this Harper hypothesis your relatives gave you. I've done the Y thing for going on 6 years now and I haven't come accross any likely relations within 500 years. Congratulations.

                  Originally posted by bouvier View Post
                  I have recently started to try to find my birth farther. I did the ydna37 first and found my dna matched several Harpers.Then I asked several relatives included the man I took my name from who it may be without revealing the match till afterwards.They all gave me the name of who they suspected with the last name Harper.So I found he had past a couple years ago, I did find his brother and did a avunclar test with GTLDna and only got a 27% match.Then me and him did a ytest with gtldna and missed on one marker(dys389-2)his was 30 mine 29 with a 95% cofindence results.Everything I have read on the net usually has a mismatch on dys389-1 to mismatch on 389-2.Now I have also been in contact with my suspected half brother and he did the ydna 37 on ftdna also and we also missed by one marker,Probably the same marker and same miss.What would be the likelihood of me having a mutation? Should I do a siblingship test? There is also another half brother from a different mother that is younger,should I test with him? Please help how I could figure this out,I really want to know if he was my father or is this just somekind of close relative or match.Thanks for all info that you can provide.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Exactly, Frederator

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      help needed

                      Thanks everyone for the help.Brian this is the same cousin match. I have also done the family finder.I have had 1 match there that has a 3rd cousin relationship that we have concluded to only match through the grandmother of my suspected dad.So this lead me to believe it more.I guess I may try the 67 marker test also.Thanks frederator for the comment about you and your brother mismatching.It was a big help.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have sent you a personal message

                        Originally posted by bouvier View Post
                        Brian this is the same cousin match.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ann Turner View Post
                          I suspect the Adoption DNA Matching site is using the same standard set of paternity testing markers that GTLDna does. The registry could be fruitful if the father and son happen to be seeking each other, but it wouldn't add anything to the avuncular calculations.

                          I agree that using Family Finder and/or Relative Finder is the best bet. You could find connections to cousins in any line of descent, not limited to the Y.
                          I am not exactly sure what DNA test Adoption DNA Matching uses but some of you may recognize it, it may be similar to what law enforcement uses (CODIS?). Anyway, I sent in my sample a year ago as they run your results once a week for years in case a match comes up with another close birth family member who was also tested. The woman who runs the company is also an adoptee so the company was set up primarily to help adoptees and birth families searching. However, I am sure their database is much smaller than the ones at FTDNA.

                          My DNA profile Report from Adoption DNA matching gives me a list of 16 genetic markers like D8S1179, TH01, vWA, TPOX, AMEL, FGA, etc., and the laboratory results for Allele A and Allele B. I am sure many of you will understand this. I just did it in case a close birth family member had also tested. Just another search tool to use, a stone for me to turn over. I also did this because at the time FTDNA Family Finder had not been released. I do believe FTDNA FF is the best choice when searching for relatives, especially for adoptees.
                          Last edited by nolnacsj; 21 December 2010, 12:42 PM. Reason: typo

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nolnacsj View Post
                            I am not exactly sure what DNA test Adoption DNA Matching uses but some of you may recognize it, it may be similar to what law enforcement uses (CODIS?). Anyway, I sent in my sample a year ago as they run your results once a week for years in case a match comes up with another close birth family member who was also tested. The woman who runs the company is also an adoptee so the company was set up primarily to help adoptees and birth families searching. However, I am sure their database is much smaller than the ones at FTDNA.

                            My DNA profile Report from Adoption DNA matching gives me a list of 16 genetic markers like D8S1179, TH01, vWA, TPOX, AMEL, FGA, etc., and the laboratory results for Allele A and Allele B. I am sure many of you will understand this. I just did it in case a close birth family member had also tested. Just another search tool to use, a stone for me to turn over. I also did this because at the time FTDNA Family Finder had not been released. I do believe FTDNA FF is the best choice when searching for relatives, especially for adoptees.
                            Yes, those would be the standard markers used in paternity testing, and bouvier can tell us if he has results for those from GTLDna. I think it's the 27% probability figure of an avuncular relationship from GTLDNA that has prompted some of us to suggest a Family Finder type test. The 16 markers just aren't enough to determine somewhat distant relationships.
                            Last edited by Ann Turner; 21 December 2010, 01:43 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ann Turner View Post
                              Yes, those would be the standard markers used in paternity testing, and bouvier can tell us if he has results for those from GTLDna. I think it's the 27% probability figure of an avuncular relationship from GTLDNA that has prompted some of us to suggest a Family Finder type test. The 16 markers just aren't enough to determine somewhat distant relationships.
                              Ann, yes that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification!

                              Judy

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