I2b1

[507]

are there many different last names that show I2b1 or just a few ?

[ekc123]

'Got the results back last week.

My earliest documented ancestor is Richard Jones born Meliden, Flintshire NE Wales. My paternal line and extended family has retained a strong presence in the area, within 10 miles radius of this location. I grew up in Treffynnon/Holywell, Flintshire.

I understand that this I2b1 group is very rare in mainland Britain and exceptionally so in Wales, so my heritage is getting interesting!

The geography of the area has been heavily contested over the millennia with various invasions, conquests and settlements by the Welsh, Saxons, Vikings and Normans. It wouldn't be surprising if my ancestor was one of these in-comers whose descendants were eventually assimilated into Welsh culture.

I will consider an upgrade for further testing as/when finances allow.

I2b1 is fairly rare everywhere, but you are correct that it is exceptionally rare in Wales from the research I've been doing. There is a fairly sizeable group of I2b1 from Britain, but relative to other groups like R1b and I1, it makes up a small percentage of the total. I've seen estimates of anywhere from 4-8% are I2b1 in Britain. It is more common in certain parts of Germany and Sweden. Of course these numbers could change somewhat. Right now, an overwhelming majority of the folks submitting their samples for testing trace their ancestry back to Britain.

[507]

'Got the results back last week.

My earliest documented ancestor is Richard Jones born Meliden, Flintshire NE Wales. My paternal line and extended family has retained a strong presence in the area, within 10 miles radius of this location. I grew up in Treffynnon/Holywell, Flintshire.

I understand that this I2b1 group is very rare in mainland Britain and exceptionally so in Wales, so my heritage is getting interesting!

The geography of the area has been heavily contested over the millennia with various invasions, conquests and settlements by the Welsh, Saxons, Vikings and Normans. It wouldn't be surprising if my ancestor was one of these in-comers whose descendants were eventually assimilated into Welsh culture.

I will consider an upgrade for further testing as/when finances allow.

That is interesting. One path my papertrail could go is back to Hook norton, Oxfordshire England. They migrated from there to Pennsylvania back in 1682. Supposedly.

Just predicted I2b1

'Got the results back last week.

My earliest documented ancestor is Richard Jones born Meliden, Flintshire NE Wales. My paternal line and extended family has retained a strong presence in the area, within 10 miles radius of this location. I grew up in Treffynnon/Holywell, Flintshire.

I understand that this I2b1 group is very rare in mainland Britain and exceptionally so in Wales, so my heritage is getting interesting!

The geography of the area has been heavily contested over the millennia with various invasions, conquests and settlements by the Welsh, Saxons, Vikings and Normans. It wouldn't be surprising if my ancestor was one of these in-comers whose descendants were eventually assimilated into Welsh culture.

I will consider an upgrade for further testing as/when finances allow.

[ekc123]

Also, some sources such as ISOGG (which I believe stands for International Society of Genetic Genealogy or something like that) have renamed portions of the I tree and they now show I2b1 as I2a2a. I wouldn't be surprised if it also changes with FTDNA soon. This doesn't mean your haplogroup has changed, but just the nomenclature as new snps are discovered or predicted and the database expands. In other words, it's still a work in progress.

[ekc123]

When I click on "haplotree" it says I2b1. But then to the right of that it says "shorthand: I M-223"

Hello,
M223+ refers to the snp -- a single mutation -- that defines the members of the haplogroup I2b1. In other words, it is just a different way of referring to the same thing. I believe snp stands for single nucleotide polymorphism and refers to a point where there is a single mutation (which then gets passed on) in the portion of the y-dna sequence tested. It differs from STRs in that these test short repeats that occur X number of times and define the various markers for a given STR. My background is not in biology, so this is just my understanding of the concepts from reading about them on the Internet.

[507]

When I click on "haplotree" it says I2b1. But then to the right of that it says "shorthand: I M-223"

[507]

I'm by no means an expert or anything even approaching it. I have been doing a lot of research lately, though, to pass the time while I wait for upgrade results. I figure if I'm gonna pay for the tests, I might as well try to understand what is involved in interpreting the results. Plus, the project administrators for the M223+ Project seem to be really knowledgeable and I try to read through their posts and info on the listservs to learn stuff.

How far off is the paperwork from what your project administrator is telling you? There could probably be a lot of different reasons for this. I know in my own case when I was working on the paperwork for my dad's side, the records were sometimes conflicting. Sometimes names were misspelled and other such things such as conflicting dates I had to sort out and sift through. My surname matches are both from the north, one of them from New York, while my dad's family is mostly from the south. I interpret this as the branches of the family going off in separate directions from Virginia, since a least one of the matches also traces his line back to Virginia as I do my own.

My family tree shows several different possible paths the lineage could have went. What the Project admin is telling me is that he knows which one is right. He says that he knows what my family tree is because he says I match the other people in the project and he has basically assigned me to a group and told me who my ancesters were based on the DNA. I think he believes he is a lot smarter than he actually is. But that's just my opinion. lol

[ekc123]

YOu seem to know what your talking about so let me ask you a question or two. My "project co - ordinator" over the Ydna surname project I joined seems convinced that I am descended from a family that came over to Pennsylvania from England back in the 1600's and then migrated all over the United states from there. He appears to be sure of this even though my paperwork does not say this is a fact. How can he know this ? I have my doubts.

I'm by no means an expert or anything even approaching it. I have been doing a lot of research lately, though, to pass the time while I wait for upgrade results. I figure if I'm gonna pay for the tests, I might as well try to understand what is involved in interpreting the results. Plus, the project administrators for the M223+ Project seem to be really knowledgeable and I try to read through their posts and info on the listservs to learn stuff.

How far off is the paperwork from what your project administrator is telling you? There could probably be a lot of different reasons for this. I know in my own case when I was working on the paperwork for my dad's side, the records were sometimes conflicting. Sometimes names were misspelled and other such things such as conflicting dates I had to sort out and sift through. My surname matches are both from the north, one of them from New York, while my dad's family is mostly from the south. I interpret this as the branches of the family going off in separate directions from Virginia, since a least one of the matches also traces his line back to Virginia as I do my own.

[507]

I wouldn't go that far. There are definite peaks of I2b1 (or I2a2a* as it appears on the newest tree) in places like Germany and to the north of Germany. I think there are some pretty decent arguments linking them with the Danes, who repeatedly invaded England (thus possibly explaining their presence there today), as well as to the invasion of the Normans in 1066. I'm not committed to this view, but I've read some pretty good arguments in favor of it. But, there are also anomalies within the group and I think the discovery of new snps will help better define the group as a whole. Then there is the Isles group which appears to be fairly young compared with I2b1 as a whole and is found mostly in the British Isles and, I believe, in Portugal as well. I'm trying to read all I can on the history of these different groups so I can understand the information better. Probably as the databases expand and new discoveries are made, the picture will hopefully get much clearer.

YOu seem to know what your talking about so let me ask you a question or two. My "project co - ordinator" over the Ydna surname project I joined seems convinced that I am descended from a family that came over to Pennsylvania from England back in the 1600's and then migrated all over the United states from there. He appears to be sure of this even though my paperwork does not say this is a fact. How can he know this ? I have my doubts.

[ekc123]

It appears to ALL be speculation.

I wouldn't go that far. There are definite peaks of I2b1 (or I2a2a* as it appears on the newest tree) in places like Germany and to the north of Germany. I think there are some pretty decent arguments linking them with the Danes, who repeatedly invaded England (thus possibly explaining their presence there today), as well as to the invasion of the Normans in 1066. I'm not committed to this view, but I've read some pretty good arguments in favor of it. But, there are also anomalies within the group and I think the discovery of new snps will help better define the group as a whole. Then there is the Isles group which appears to be fairly young compared with I2b1 as a whole and is found mostly in the British Isles and, I believe, in Portugal as well. I'm trying to read all I can on the history of these different groups so I can understand the information better. Probably as the databases expand and new discoveries are made, the picture will hopefully get much clearer.

[507]

I2b1 is believed to be indigenous to Europe and so your ancestors probably came to S.C. from Europe. But whether ALL I2b1 members are the descendents of Normans, Vikings, Saxons, or whatever - some websites promote one group over the other -- is pure speculation at this point in my opinion.

It appears to ALL be speculation.

[ekc123]

Well, I am from the state of Georgia and my ancestor came from South Carolina in the 1850's so you can add the state of South Carolina to the list as well.

I2b1 is believed to be indigenous to Europe and so your ancestors probably came to S.C. from Europe. But whether ALL I2b1 members are the descendents of Normans, Vikings, Saxons, or whatever - some websites promote one group over the other -- is pure speculation at this point in my opinion.

[507]

In otherwords, 507, all I am saying is that we can determine where I2b1 members reside today through testing, but sorting out whether its members are descendents of the Vikings or the Danes that invaded England, etc. is premature at this point, in my opinion. There is a lot of diversity in terms of location, haplotypes, etc. within I2b1 or I2a2a or whatever it is called -- the name changes faster than I can keep up with it.

Well, I am from the state of Georgia and my ancestor came from South Carolina in the 1850's so you can add the state of South Carolina to the list as well.

[ekc123]

In otherwords, 507, all I am saying is that we can determine where I2b1 members reside today through testing, but sorting out whether its members are descendents of the Vikings or the Danes that invaded England, etc. is premature at this point, in my opinion. There is a lot of diversity in terms of location, haplotypes, etc. within I2b1 or I2a2a or whatever it is called -- the name changes faster than I can keep up with it.