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Please help me on "Walk Through The Y"

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  • Please help me on "Walk Through The Y"

    This is the message on the R1a project I joined:-

    "If your ancestors are from northern India, Iceland, Greece, Turkey, or Norway and you have YCAIIb at 21 or 23, they are looking for you for a Walk Thru The Y project!"

    Since my closest matches are listed by FTDNA as Norway and Iceland and I apparently have 21 at YCAIIb should I do something about it?

    Who are "they" and if I were to walk the walk how much would it cost me?

    What would the potential results do for my searching, etc?

    Thanking you, Roy

  • #2
    well to start with I am not from the "Walk The Y" Project.
    Nor am I a member.

    So far as I know.. the "Walk the Y Project" helped identify an snp marker called R-L159.2 which I have since tested + Possitive for.
    (Thank-you "Walk the Y")

    I have been at this dna genealogy over 5 years now; testing for all downstream snp possibilities.

    Thank-you for the hard work from the volunteers of the "Walk the Y Project".
    An SNP marker called R-L159.2 was found amonst some males who are R-L21+

    It is my hope that people don't stop when they get their DYS sequence numbers.

    Join the Walk the Y Project and help sort things out.
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...Y/default.aspx ...or one like it.

    DYS Sequence numbers are like leaves on a tree.
    SNP's are the branches.

    Someone's sequence may look like your's but if they are not possitive to the same snp markers, then you can pretty well rule them out as relatives in genealogical time. It's important to find out which SNP branch are you on.

    Michael
    Last edited by M.O'Connor; 18 May 2010, 12:25 AM.

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    • #3
      If you are seriously considering ordering a WTY test and forking out $750 for it, you should first discuss it with your haplogroup project leader/s.

      The upside is FTDNA finds one or more new SNPs in your Y-DNA; the downside is they find nothing new at all. You may have to wait around 6 months after ordering and submitting samples for any result to be known.

      Here are some slides from a 2009 presentation by Dr Thomas Krahn, organizer of the WTY project:

      http://www.dna-fingerprint.com/stati...lkThroughY.pdf

      ... and here is the application form which, curiously, asks for your FTDNA password -- but don't reveal that as it is not required. Authorized FTDNA staff can see your records without having to know your password.

      http://www.familytreedna.com/walk-y-application.aspx

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      • #4
        Thanks Michael & GTC

        I didn't understand the slideshow but I tried. I notice the little men in the slideshow were running away. Something to do with the cost I assume.

        Had a look at the website for the Walk. I ought not to lash out that kind of money until I know more about the subject. It could lead to divorce.

        I have just ordered a deep R clade test which I believe unleashes some SNPs of its own without walking the walk.

        How many may I expect and what shall I do with them when I get them? Will they help with matching?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by royfarnol View Post
          I ought not to lash out that kind of money until I know more about the subject. It could lead to divorce.
          Yes, discussing such expenditure with your other half is a very good idea, especially when the outcome for the outlay may be 'no result'.

          I have just ordered a deep R clade test which I believe unleashes some SNPs of its own without walking the walk.
          Deep clade testing searches your Y-DNA for one or more nominated SNPs and reports positive or negative on each. The search is done on known DNA "addresses", as it were. In the process of doing that, FTDNA might chance upon a new SNP, but that is not a common occurrence as I understand it.

          The WTY effort is specifically designed to look for new SNPs over a much larger range of "addresses". I gather it is quite a painstaking laboratory process which is why it costs more and takes longer to complete.

          How many may I expect and what shall I do with them when I get them? Will they help with matching?
          With Deep clade testing the number of SNPs is known beforehand because you nominate which SNPs to test for. With WTY searching the number of new SNPs to expect to be found is not known, other than zero is a good possibility.

          SNP testing beyond a certain point is more useful for trying to determine anthropological origins than matching with recent relatives. The timescale for deep clade is thousands or tens of thousands of years, whereas with STR marker testing we are talking in hundreds of years.

          In simple terms, for the purposes of this discussion, think of STR as paternal family and SNP as paternal tribe.

          Looking at the bigger picture, I note that R1a haplotree contains far fewer known SNPs than say R1b, so I can understand why there would be a call from the R1a camp for volunteers to help try to find new SNPs. Given the current technology and methods of testing, it is only through committed individuals volunteering and paying for projects like WTY that new ground can be broken.

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          • #6
            Thanks GTC

            Very informative, thank you.

            More questions.

            Are these STRs and SNPs chronological and dateable (approximately I daresay)?

            Do the numbers assigned reflect that or any other significance?

            Why are the FTDNA Y results displayed in what appears to be a standard but non-consecutive order?

            Thanks, Roy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by royfarnol View Post
              Are these STRs and SNPs chronological and dateable (approximately I daresay)?
              I can't speak for STRs, but there are estimates for when the various SNP mutations occurred. See the footnotes on the various haplogroup pages in the ISOGG tree:

              http://www.isogg.org/tree/index.html

              I would recommend that you get a copy of Deep Ancestry by Spencer Wells. It's written in an interesting and accessible style and remains a good reference book.

              Do the numbers assigned reflect that or any other significance?
              The naming convention for SNPs comprises a code for the discovering lab and a serial number. FTDNA uses 'L' (in memory of Leo Little), so L1 was discovered before L2, etc. For other letter codes see the footnotes on the main page of the ISOGG tree.

              For STR naming convention, see here:

              http://www.dnaconnections.com/006a.html

              Why are the FTDNA Y results displayed in what appears to be a standard but non-consecutive order?
              Good question. I don't know the answer to that.

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              • #8
                @ gtc

                Thanks GTC. Now I know everything about Genetic Genealogy and can concentrate on the World Cup.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by royfarnol View Post
                  Thanks GTC. Now I know everything about Genetic Genealogy and can concentrate on the World Cup.

                  Haha. What I don't know about both DNA and soccer could fill a library.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by royfarnol View Post

                    Why are the FTDNA Y results displayed in what appears to be a standard but non-consecutive order?

                    Thanks, Roy.
                    If you are referring to FTDNA y results I have the answer.

                    The Y results are listed in most probable match first within a panel. This means if all matches are genetic distance of say 1 (say you are in the 25 marker genetic distance 1 section) then it will list the match at the top that has a higher probability of closer relationship based on the marker that is different than yours. Some markers mutate faster then others and this is how they can tell if your match is closer or farther than another match of the same panel and the same genetic distance.

                    Also they seem to list new matches above older ones if all else is equal.

                    If you weren't referring to FTDNA then I wasn't paying attention to the whole thread I suppose...

                    .

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                    • #11
                      Voila!

                      @ mkdexter

                      I see, now I really do know everything. Thanks.

                      @ gtc What is "soccer"? I was talking about football.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by royfarnol View Post
                        @ gtc What is "soccer"? I was talking about football.
                        Who cares. Bring on The Ashes! :-)

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