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  • #31
    Originally posted by vinnie View Post
    Therefore, it's difficult for the folks in the mother/fatherland to appreciate the intense interest that so many of us have in "finding our roots", even if we have a very good idea of where we came from, as did I.
    Spot on.

    (Ironically, I've been told by several "real" Italians in the last few years that there's increasing recognition that in order to experience traditional Italian Culture and even language -from those of us who still remember our grandparents' dialects - that Italians need to travel to the U.S, Canada, etc., because Italy has changed so much since the Great Immigration.)
    I've heard the same said about Greeks, and doubtless it's true for other "displaced" nationalities as well.

    It's not surprising to me that those from the sending nations may not have as much of an interest as those in the diasporas to utilize genetic genealogy to help trace family heritage. On the contrary, I believe that it's those of us in the diasporas who may provide the most accurate genetic picture of the sending countries, at least at the time of the immigrations, since populations have changed in so many of these countries since the majority of the immigration occurred.
    It's quite true that immigrant communities tend to preserve a snapshot of their culture and values as they existed at the time they left the old country, at least for a few subsequent generations until the kids are fully assimilated as it were.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by gtc View Post
      As for other countries, which could add invaluable information for us, we have the opposite problem: apathy.

      I have a particular interest in Ireland, however it has been said that the Irish are not very interested in being DNA-tested, or in genealogy in general, because of the "we know where we are from" mentality which is apparently all too common there.

      Those of us that form the various Diasporas can only hope that that sort of attitude can be changed, but as to what motivation is required for that to happen I'm at a loss to say.
      Are you saying that you want Irish people to take dna tests to help you find your roots?You say that your GG Grandfather came from Dublin.What else do want to know?What do you need a dna test for?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
        Are you saying that you want Irish people to take dna tests to help you find your roots?You say that your GG Grandfather came from Dublin.What else do want to know?
        You'll note that the subject of this thread is "Deep Clade Test".

        Deep clade testing is associated with deep ancestry -- way past 1820 when my great grandparents were born -- tens of thousands of years back.

        What do you need a dna test for?
        I don't need a DNA test. I've had plenty: HVR1, HVR2 and FGS for mtDNA and 67 marker in Y as well as numerous SNP tests, plus the full suite of 23andMe tests. What I, and others who are interested in deep ancestry, want are more Irishmen and other currently underrepresented nationalities, to be deep clade tested.

        Out of interest, what FTDNA tests have you yourself had?

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        • #34
          I, first of all did let my DNA tested because a European reseller of FTDNA promised to be able to tell you if you lineage belonged to Celts, Germanic peoples or Slavs (and others) 2.000 or 3.000 years ago....Well, I dont believe in that anymore.

          I am from Germany and my grandparents come from various different parts of the German Empire.

          Fathers side:
          Grandfather: born in Silesia (now Poland), with a surname that apears to be a germanisation of a Polish surname (this spelling variant only exists in Germany and parts of Poland that once had been parts of the German empire)
          From him is my Y-DNA: R1a1a

          Grandmother: born in Silesia (now Poland), with a maiden surname from South-West-Germany (near French border). (Wich is also my surname, since my father was born missbegotten) Her mtDNA: H (dont know the subclade)

          Mothers side:
          Grandfather: born in Eastern Prussia (now Russia), with a surname that suggests connection to Czechia (Bohemia). He claims his fathers mother was from Lithuania. He does not want to be tested. ("If they find out, I belong to the wrong people, they come and shoot me, eh?")

          Grandmother: born in Westfalia (in 2km distance to the Dutch border) with a maiden surname that only exists in a circle of 20km diameter around that place. Her mtDNA: K1a4a1a

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          • #35
            Originally posted by gtc View Post
            .




            Out of interest, what FTDNA tests have you yourself had?
            Im M269 and I believe we are cousins all the way from Turkey.The new M269 study gives a TMRCA for Ireland at 5,533 years.
            A lot of schools are getting the children to fill out their family trees.The charts have only four generations on them.I cant see a lot of Irish people paying for deep clade tests as they arent interested who there ancestors were 10,000 years ago.
            A lot of people know by their surname where their recent ancestors came from.Burke is just one name and if you ask any of them they will tell you that they are descended from the Normans.Corbett is another and they came from England.Most people with an O or mac to their names know that they came from the Gaels.The people here know who there ancestors were.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
              I cant see a lot of Irish people paying for deep clade tests as they arent interested who there ancestors were 10,000 years ago.

              <snip>

              The people here know who there ancestors were.
              And that's precisely the attitudinal issue that you weighed into when you took me to task for raising it.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by gtc View Post
                And that's precisely the attitudinal issue that you weighed into when you took me to task for raising it.
                What is it that you are looking for?You must have a good idea where your Dublin ancestor was from.I see that you are L48 and there has to be plenty of people in Ireland in that group.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                  What is it that you are looking for?You must have a good idea where your Dublin ancestor was from.I see that you are L48 and there has to be plenty of people in Ireland in that group.
                  Actually, L48 is not that common in those with Irish ancestry. P312*, L21 and M222 are far more common.

                  So, an L48 in someone with Irish ancestry like gtc is certainly interesting as far as deep ancestry goes. It implies a different geographic or ethnic origin than most other R1b1b2 Irish men, say about 1-2,000 years ago. If I had to take a guess, I would say that points in the direction of a geographic origin more to the east than most Irish men have, say the Low Countries or northern Germany.

                  Of course, not everyone is interested in deep ancestry and, as you and gtc now seem to agree, many Europeans, including in Ireland, don't have much interest in finding out where their ancestors were even a few hundred years ago. But for those who are interested in deep ancestry, a deep clade test is the way to go.

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                  • #39
                    If I want someone else to take a y-DNA test, I always offer to pay for it. I have had a number of cousins tested to get results for patrilines in my non-patrilineal ancestry -my mother's brother, for example.

                    Make it as simple & painless as possible for others & you will be amazed at what you can achieve.

                    However, if I pay for it, by using my e-mail address as the contact e-mail, I always control the personal webpage for the tested person.

                    Timothy Peterman

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by T E Peterman View Post
                      If I want someone else to take a y-DNA test, I always offer to pay for it.
                      Ditto. I have sponsored additional testing via my surname project, and there is a standing offer to sponsor any other relevant testing need that may come along. As for control, I leave that in the trusty hands of the project admin.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                        Actually, L48 is not that common in those with Irish ancestry. P312*, L21 and M222 are far more common.

                        So, an L48 in someone with Irish ancestry like gtc is certainly interesting as far as deep ancestry goes. It implies a different geographic or ethnic origin than most other R1b1b2 Irish men, say about 1-2,000 years ago. If I had to take a guess, I would say that points in the direction of a geographic origin more to the east than most Irish men have, say the Low Countries or northern Germany.

                        Of course, not everyone is interested in deep ancestry and, as you and gtc now seem to agree, many Europeans, including in Ireland, don't have much interest in finding out where their ancestors were even a few hundred years ago. But for those who are interested in deep ancestry, a deep clade test is the way to go.
                        A lot of the people who left Ireland in the last 300 years to go to America and other countries have the same dna as the people here.There cant be a lot of changes in the dna in such a short time. I thought SNPs happen over thousands of years.
                        It is estimated that 10,000,000 people left this Island from 1700 until the present day.I have a book on the subject.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                          Actually, L48 is not that common in those with Irish ancestry. P312*, L21 and M222 are far more common.

                          So, an L48 in someone with Irish ancestry like gtc is certainly interesting as far as deep ancestry goes. It implies a different geographic or ethnic origin than most other R1b1b2 Irish men, say about 1-2,000 years ago. If I had to take a guess, I would say that points in the direction of a geographic origin more to the east than most Irish men have, say the Low Countries or northern Germany.
                          Surname research would seem to suggest that my lot got to Ireland as part of Strongbow's invasion forces around 1170, in which case Anglo-Norman or Cambro-Norman roots are a possibility.

                          Other than that I don't have any suggestion as to how my male forebears got their L48 into Ireland.

                          However, I do consider Ireland a transitional step in my lineage, albeit for some 700 years.

                          I should add, that my STR profile has been described as "Frisian", although I think that term may now be out of favor.
                          Last edited by gtc; 1 February 2010, 06:43 AM. Reason: Added STR bit

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                            A lot of the people who left Ireland in the last 300 years to go to America and other countries have the same dna as the people here.There cant be a lot of changes in the dna in such a short time. I thought SNPs happen over thousands of years.
                            It is estimated that 10,000,000 people left this Island from 1700 until the present day.I have a book on the subject.
                            What he meant is, that L48 isnt reall all that common in Ireland but more common in the Lower Countries or northern Germany, wich suggests Anglo-Saxon roots rather than Irish-Celtic ones if it comes to "Deep Anchestry".

                            Also, if I think of the term "DNA", I imagine the whole DNA Sequence (with all the autosomal chromosoms). That changes extremely fast. (if one recalls that a childs DNA is made by taking 50% of the moms DNA and 50% of the dads DNA....)

                            I can imagine, after 300 years crossbreading with non-Irish people, there is no irish DNA left, besides the Y-Chromosom maybe.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                              Of course, not everyone is interested in deep ancestry and, as you and gtc now seem to agree, many Europeans, including in Ireland, don't have much interest in finding out where their ancestors were even a few hundred years ago. But for those who are interested in deep ancestry, a deep clade test is the way to go.
                              Can anyone do the WTY test?When I have enough money I was thinking of taking this test.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                                Can anyone do the WTY test?When I have enough money I was thinking of taking this test.
                                I do not know if any applications have been rejected, but the terms do include the following: "The GRC laboratory director decides if and when an application will be accepted based on the scientific importance."

                                To which haplogroup and subclade do you belong?

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