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Genetic Distance of 9 How likely we are related?

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  • Romain
    Guest replied
    24 out of 25 markers: are we related ?

    Originally posted by gtc View Post
    Re haplogroup, he says he's tested as SRY2627 (aka M167) so I believe that would make him R1b1b2a1b3 by FTDNA's current tree or R1b1b2a1a2c according to the ISOGG 2010 haplotree.
    Hi and thanks for replying,

    I have been tested SRY2627 (aka M167) BY GENEBASE and ordered a 67 marker DNA test from FTDNA. So far I received 37 out of the 67.
    Please, find my markers (Romain Grouazel Krauss) compared on YDEARCH with the other person (Borders):

    NK38M GROUAZEL KRAUSS Saint Malo (1479) dit du Vivier sur Mer (35) BRITTANY, France 13 25 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 24 15 15 18 17 37 37 12 12

    UPZX2 Borders America 13 25 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17

    We differ on DYS459b by one point. I have DYS459b=10 he has DYS459b=9

    Thanks for your help

    Romain Grouazel Krauss

    Leave a comment:


  • vinnie
    replied
    Originally posted by dtinker View Post
    Ok, the rest of the markers came back today. So here is the scoop. He matches on 36/37 markers to a man with a totally different surname. The only matches to ppl of the same surname are at a distance of 9 or higher, which I assume basically rules them out. He is also a match at 34/37 to several men of a diff surname (mainly the Fancher men , all from the same line going back) so I assume this means he did indeed have an NPE and any idea on what generation I should be looking at for this to have occured?
    It's not necessarily an NPE. Depending on the TMRCA between the haplotypes, and the history of surname adoption in Ireland, it's possible that you've discovered the link between two branches of the same family who simply adopted different surnames.

    Leave a comment:


  • gtc
    replied
    Re haplogroup, he says he's tested as SRY2627 (aka M167) so I believe that would make him R1b1b2a1b3 by FTDNA's current tree or R1b1b2a1a2c according to the ISOGG 2010 haplotree.
    Last edited by gtc; 7 February 2010, 06:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Barrett
    replied
    Originally posted by Romain View Post
    Hi there,

    Are we related somehow in the last millenium, or are we related somewhere long ago before?

    Romain Grouazel Krauss
    Romain,

    The answer depends on two things. 1) What is your Haplogroup? and 2) What is your Haplotype? If you have a rare Haplotype, even in a common Haplogroup the chances may be good. If you have a common Haplotype and Haplogroup, say R1b1 or a subclade of it the odds are against it.

    You and the other person need to have more than 25 markers. Go to your myFTDNA website and look at you 25 marker matches. If there is a number after this person's name that is the number of markers he has had reported. The number could go up in the next week or so if he is a new customer and has ordered more markers. If there isn't a number after his name he has only had 25 markers reported so far.

    What about your other matches? Do you have any? How many markers have you ordered? What is you Haplogroup? Have you loaded you data to Ysearch? If so what is your ID? Are you in a project? If so, does the project have a website and how do we find you in that website?

    What it boils down to is we need a lot more information before being able to give you an informed answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • EdwardRHill
    replied
    Explanation for the 25 Marker Test RESULTS:
    Distance Relation
    0 Related

    Your perfect 25/25 match means you share a common male ancestor with a person who shares your surname (or variant). These two facts demonstrate your relatedness.
    1 Related

    You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by only one 'point' on only one marker. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is very high.
    2 Probably Related

    You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by two 'points' on the 25 markers we tested. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is good, however your results show mutations, and therefore more time between you and the other same surnamed person.
    3 Probably Not Related

    You share the same surname (or a variant) but are off by 3 'points' or 3 locations on the 25 markers tested. If enough time has passed it is possible that you and another distantly related family members' line each have had a mutation, or perhaps 2. The only way to prove that is to test additional family lines and find where the mutation took place. Expressed another way, assume your score puts you at 3 on the clock. Assume the person 3 from you is at the 9 position. Only by further testing can you find the person in between each of you...this in 'betweener' becomes essential for you to find, and in their absence the possibility of a match exists, but further evidence should be pursued.
    4 Not Related

    21/25 is too far off to be considered related. Unlikely but vaguely possible that the rule for ONLY Possible related applies. It is important to determine what set of result most typifies 'most' members of the group you are 'close' to matching. You may be 21/25 with an individual, but 23/25 with the center (most common) of the group, and your potential relatedness to him is through the center of the group.
    5 Not Related

    20/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 2,000 years
    6 Not Related

    19/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 5,000 years
    >6 Not Related You are totally unrelated to this person.

    Leave a comment:


  • Romain
    Guest replied
    24 markers in common out of 25, but different surname: how are we raleted?

    Hi there,

    I received an email from FTDNA alerting my DNA matches someone's else DNA: 24 markers out of 25? My family name is GROUAZEL (from Brittany) and can trace my paternal ancestors back to the 15th century in Brittany. This other person's name is Borders from the USA !?
    Are we related somehow in the last millenium, or are we related somewhere long ago before?

    I have been tested R-SRY2627

    Thanks for any help

    Romain Grouazel Krauss

    Leave a comment:


  • rucksack
    replied
    I posted this on the other thread too.

    Any clues here? http://news.rootsweb.com/th/read/PAS...-08/0904576015

    Leave a comment:


  • dtinker
    replied
    Ok, the rest of the markers came back today. So here is the scoop. He matches on 36/37 markers to a man with a totally different surname. The only matches to ppl of the same surname are at a distance of 9 or higher, which I assume basically rules them out. He is also a match at 34/37 to several men of a diff surname (mainly the Fancher men , all from the same line going back) so I assume this means he did indeed have an NPE and any idea on what generation I should be looking at for this to have occured?

    Leave a comment:


  • rucksack
    replied
    I've lost track of how many markers were tested and or compared.

    There is absolutely no need to assume a non paternal event if the markers compared are low.

    There are plenty of people that have not tested at all, and will likely never test.

    Leave a comment:


  • gtc
    replied
    Originally posted by dtinker View Post
    as far as I can tell it looks like my husband may have had a NPE in his family.
    They are a lot commoner than most newcomers to genealogy expect and can often become a frustrating roadblock, especially when relatives are in denial, or where diplomacy says "don't go there".

    Leave a comment:


  • dtinker
    replied
    lol Well Im sure you know what I meant, as far as I can tell it looks like my husband may have had a NPE in his family. Ill know for sure soon enough. Good luck with your search and I hope you get a match soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chap
    replied
    Originally posted by dtinker View Post
    Hmm..thanks for letting me know that, I thought I had read it meant a possible relationship, so I shouldnt be considering a relation at all between us? Back to square one then. Still waiting on the last set of markers from the lab. Ill be ordering the upgrades for sure.
    I must correct your statement that you are "back to square one", you are most certainly not. My family's DNA matches absolutely no one except itself. My wife is growing more and more certain that we are aliens. Rejoice in your knowledge.

    Leave a comment:


  • gtc
    replied
    Originally posted by dtinker View Post
    The link you posted is not working on my computer.

    25 Markers

    Distance: 0 - Related

    Your perfect 25/25 match means you share a common male ancestor with a person who shares your surname (or variant). These two facts demonstrate your relatedness

    Distance: 1 - Related

    You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by only one 'point' on only one marker. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is very high.

    Distance: 2 - Probably Related

    You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by two 'points' among the 25 markers we tested. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is good, however your results show mutations, and therefore more time between you and the other same surnamed person.

    Distance: 3 - Probably Not Related

    You share the same surname (or a variant) but are off by 3 'points' or 3 locations on the 25 markers tested. If enough time has passed it is possible that you and another distantly related family members' line each have had a mutation, or perhaps 2. The only way to prove that is to test additional family lines and find where the mutation took place. Only by further testing can you find the person in between each of you... this in 'betweener' becomes essential for you to find, and in their absence the possibility of a match exists, but further evidence should be pursued.

    Distance: 4 - Not Related

    21/25 is too far off to be considered related. Unlikely but vaguely possible that the rule for ONLY “Probably Not Related” applies. It is important to determine what set of results (or haplotype) most typifies 'most' members of the group you are close to matching. You may be 21/25 with an individual, but 23/25 with the center (most common) of the group, and your potential relatedness to him is through the center of the group.

    Distance: 5 - Not Related

    20/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 2,000 years.

    Distance: 6 - Not Related

    Y19/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 5,000 years.

    Distance: > 6 - Not Related

    You are totally unrelated to this person.
    Last edited by gtc; 15 January 2010, 08:39 PM.

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  • PDHOTLEN
    replied
    Genetic distance doesn't necessarily mean geographical distance. Two branches could evolve side by side in a relatively confined geographical area.

    Leave a comment:


  • nikkicivetti
    replied
    relationship

    A distance of 9 is a large separation. Most likely, not at all related, but if so very very very distant.

    A close relation is an exact match. A difference of 1 usually means distant relative, and 2 even more distant. Try using the Match line up in FTDNA for MATCHES and this will tell you the generational distance possibilities.
    Go to YDNA Index, then Matches, then Understanding FTDNATIPS. Click on this and it will show you what I mean.
    Last edited by nikkicivetti; 15 January 2010, 05:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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