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Genetic Distance of 9 How likely we are related?

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  • Genetic Distance of 9 How likely we are related?

    My husband found a match on Ysearch and the person has the same surname and they are a genetic distance of 9. Their last known ancestor is from the same area as his last known ancestor, we are still waiting on the final markers to come back for the 37 markers, right now they are a match on 16 out of 25 markers for a genetic difference of 9. So how likely at this point are they related and about how far back should we be looking? Any thoughts?

  • #2
    According to FTDNA, at 25 markers a distance of 7 or more means totally unrelated:

    http://www.familytreedna.com/genetic...px?testtype=25

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    • #3
      Hmm..thanks for letting me know that, I thought I had read it meant a possible relationship, so I shouldnt be considering a relation at all between us? Back to square one then. Still waiting on the last set of markers from the lab. Ill be ordering the upgrades for sure.

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      • #4
        The link you posted is not working on my computer.

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        • #5
          relationship

          A distance of 9 is a large separation. Most likely, not at all related, but if so very very very distant.

          A close relation is an exact match. A difference of 1 usually means distant relative, and 2 even more distant. Try using the Match line up in FTDNA for MATCHES and this will tell you the generational distance possibilities.
          Go to YDNA Index, then Matches, then Understanding FTDNATIPS. Click on this and it will show you what I mean.
          Last edited by nikkicivetti; 15 January 2010, 05:29 PM.

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          • #6
            Genetic distance doesn't necessarily mean geographical distance. Two branches could evolve side by side in a relatively confined geographical area.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by dtinker View Post
              The link you posted is not working on my computer.

              25 Markers

              Distance: 0 - Related

              Your perfect 25/25 match means you share a common male ancestor with a person who shares your surname (or variant). These two facts demonstrate your relatedness

              Distance: 1 - Related

              You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by only one 'point' on only one marker. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is very high.

              Distance: 2 - Probably Related

              You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by two 'points' among the 25 markers we tested. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is good, however your results show mutations, and therefore more time between you and the other same surnamed person.

              Distance: 3 - Probably Not Related

              You share the same surname (or a variant) but are off by 3 'points' or 3 locations on the 25 markers tested. If enough time has passed it is possible that you and another distantly related family members' line each have had a mutation, or perhaps 2. The only way to prove that is to test additional family lines and find where the mutation took place. Only by further testing can you find the person in between each of you... this in 'betweener' becomes essential for you to find, and in their absence the possibility of a match exists, but further evidence should be pursued.

              Distance: 4 - Not Related

              21/25 is too far off to be considered related. Unlikely but vaguely possible that the rule for ONLY “Probably Not Related” applies. It is important to determine what set of results (or haplotype) most typifies 'most' members of the group you are close to matching. You may be 21/25 with an individual, but 23/25 with the center (most common) of the group, and your potential relatedness to him is through the center of the group.

              Distance: 5 - Not Related

              20/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 2,000 years.

              Distance: 6 - Not Related

              Y19/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 5,000 years.

              Distance: > 6 - Not Related

              You are totally unrelated to this person.
              Last edited by gtc; 15 January 2010, 08:39 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dtinker View Post
                Hmm..thanks for letting me know that, I thought I had read it meant a possible relationship, so I shouldnt be considering a relation at all between us? Back to square one then. Still waiting on the last set of markers from the lab. Ill be ordering the upgrades for sure.
                I must correct your statement that you are "back to square one", you are most certainly not. My family's DNA matches absolutely no one except itself. My wife is growing more and more certain that we are aliens. Rejoice in your knowledge.

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                • #9
                  lol Well Im sure you know what I meant, as far as I can tell it looks like my husband may have had a NPE in his family. Ill know for sure soon enough. Good luck with your search and I hope you get a match soon.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dtinker View Post
                    as far as I can tell it looks like my husband may have had a NPE in his family.
                    They are a lot commoner than most newcomers to genealogy expect and can often become a frustrating roadblock, especially when relatives are in denial, or where diplomacy says "don't go there".

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                    • #11
                      I've lost track of how many markers were tested and or compared.

                      There is absolutely no need to assume a non paternal event if the markers compared are low.

                      There are plenty of people that have not tested at all, and will likely never test.

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                      • #12
                        Ok, the rest of the markers came back today. So here is the scoop. He matches on 36/37 markers to a man with a totally different surname. The only matches to ppl of the same surname are at a distance of 9 or higher, which I assume basically rules them out. He is also a match at 34/37 to several men of a diff surname (mainly the Fancher men , all from the same line going back) so I assume this means he did indeed have an NPE and any idea on what generation I should be looking at for this to have occured?

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                        • #13
                          I posted this on the other thread too.

                          Any clues here? http://news.rootsweb.com/th/read/PAS...-08/0904576015

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                          • #14
                            24 markers in common out of 25, but different surname: how are we raleted?

                            Hi there,

                            I received an email from FTDNA alerting my DNA matches someone's else DNA: 24 markers out of 25? My family name is GROUAZEL (from Brittany) and can trace my paternal ancestors back to the 15th century in Brittany. This other person's name is Borders from the USA !?
                            Are we related somehow in the last millenium, or are we related somewhere long ago before?

                            I have been tested R-SRY2627

                            Thanks for any help

                            Romain Grouazel Krauss

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                            • #15
                              Explanation for the 25 Marker Test RESULTS:
                              Distance Relation
                              0 Related

                              Your perfect 25/25 match means you share a common male ancestor with a person who shares your surname (or variant). These two facts demonstrate your relatedness.
                              1 Related

                              You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by only one 'point' on only one marker. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is very high.
                              2 Probably Related

                              You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by two 'points' on the 25 markers we tested. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is good, however your results show mutations, and therefore more time between you and the other same surnamed person.
                              3 Probably Not Related

                              You share the same surname (or a variant) but are off by 3 'points' or 3 locations on the 25 markers tested. If enough time has passed it is possible that you and another distantly related family members' line each have had a mutation, or perhaps 2. The only way to prove that is to test additional family lines and find where the mutation took place. Expressed another way, assume your score puts you at 3 on the clock. Assume the person 3 from you is at the 9 position. Only by further testing can you find the person in between each of you...this in 'betweener' becomes essential for you to find, and in their absence the possibility of a match exists, but further evidence should be pursued.
                              4 Not Related

                              21/25 is too far off to be considered related. Unlikely but vaguely possible that the rule for ONLY Possible related applies. It is important to determine what set of result most typifies 'most' members of the group you are 'close' to matching. You may be 21/25 with an individual, but 23/25 with the center (most common) of the group, and your potential relatedness to him is through the center of the group.
                              5 Not Related

                              20/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 2,000 years
                              6 Not Related

                              19/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 5,000 years
                              >6 Not Related You are totally unrelated to this person.

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