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Deep Clade Test

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  • Deep Clade Test

    My husband's test came back with a haplogroup of R1B1B2 which I understand is one of the most prevalent haplogroups. What is the advantage to doing a deep clade test? His ancestry is English and it seems that the test would not give us much information except to be more specific within the British Isles. Any insight into this would be appreciated. Thanks.

  • #2
    It seems that deep clade testing is the latest fad. Especially for R1b. I don't know what, if any, more information it would give. At this point it looks to me like a lot of R1b men are splitting hairs on whether they are Viking (and is it Norse or Swedish or Danish), or Celt (and is it Irish or Scottish or Pict or Brythonic or Iceni or Welsh), or Saxon, and so on, and looks as if they aren't sure about stuff and are trying to map out every strand of R1b to figure it out in the future.


    • #3
      Originally posted by mlc View Post
      My husband's test came back with a haplogroup of R1B1B2 which I understand is one of the most prevalent haplogroups. What is the advantage to doing a deep clade test?
      R1b is the commonest haplogroup in Europe, so knowing that you're R1b1b2 isn't very useful if you're at all interested in deep ancestry. For most it's really just confirming the historically obvious.

      There is much effort going on to discover more SNPs which will hopefully split the huge R1b haplogroup into finer divisions or "clades" thereby helping us determine origins at regional level.

      For that to happen we need men to test who belong to ancient European families, long-rooted in particular regions.

      Here is the ISOGG 2010 version of the haplotree:

      Note that R1b1b2 is fairly high up -- that is, close to the trunk. There are many branches or clades below it. Two of the "popular" subclade nodes are L48 (R1b1b2a1a1d) and L21 (R1b1b2a1a2f), and there is considerable speculation currently on what those divisions may mean in terms of regional origin.

      However, those nodes are still comparatively populous so finer resolution is the holy grail, so to speak.


      • #4
        SNP testing is a lot more solid than y-str testing. With short tandem repeats, the counts can simply vary up or down for each marker. Y-str matches are all about the likelihood of being related.

        SNP testing is a lot more exact. You either have the marker, or you don't. Anyone who has looked at ISOGG can see that precise trees can be built on SNPs. Probably by examining the y-str variation for men who all test positive for a SNP, the age of the SNP can be estimated.

        If, among two R1b men, one is L21+ & another is U152+, even if their y-str counts are almost identical, we know that they didn't share a common patrilineal ancestor after about 2000 BC. We know this because L21 & U152 are each about 3,500 to 4,000 years old. How could they have almost identical y-str counts? Because of random variation. Yes, the counts can overlap between haplogroups.

        I envision a future where a lot more downstream SNPs are identified for all haplogroups. Some will no doubt be found that are only 500 to 1,000 years old. Once all patrilines are assigned to these haplogroups, we will have a far more exact description of kinships among families, both in Europe & worldwide.

        SNP testing is more than a fad -it is the future of genetic genealogy.

        Timothy Peterman


        • #5
          Could find some that are 500 to 1,000 years old? Wow! That would be fabulous!

          If I could do a deep clade test, I would. I'm doing the female equivalent by upgrading to FGS. My mtdna, as it is now (H1 to H1c), is about 13,000 to 9,000 years old. I would be thrilled if my mtdna is only 500 years old.


          • #6
            Re how old...

            As for my own mtDNA common ancestor, I'll probably never connect all the dots. But based on my rather rare HVR1+HVR2, it looks to me that the common ancestor was in England. One female concerned was born in 1589 in England. I suspect that she, along with at least one other female relative came to Virginia in a sail ship during the 1600's; probably around 1615 to 1620. She had a daughter there in 1621.


            • #7
              I've talked with my mom and it may be that I'm the last one left of my mtdna line. I am my grandmothers only grandchild. My grandmother was one of thirteen kids but her sisters didn't have granddaughters. My grandmother had 6 double cousins, 3 were female and could pass on our mtdna line, but I don't know if they did. I only know their maiden names. If they did pass on the mtdna, then it would be in North Carolina. My greatgreatgrandmothers sister married a Taylor and moved from North Carolina to Virginia (died in Norfolk, Virginia). Maybe I have mtdna cousins in Virginia?