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  • M269

    Is M269 the founding father of all Celts?Where did he originate?

  • #2
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Is M269 the founding father of all Celts?Where did he originate?
    I don't think all Celts are R1b1b2. Celts could be anything from R1b, I2b, I2a, etc. maybe even I1.

    Not sure where R-M269 originated. Try looking on wikipedia or something. It probably originated in the Near East, or at least came from there like most European Haplogroups.

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    • #3
      While I agree that the Celts were not exclusively M269+, I would say that it is true that the old distribution of Celtic-speaking people and the distribution of M269+ coincide or overlap to a very great extent. That is especially true of P312+ (R1b1b2a1b) and its subclades, particularly L21 and U152. Thus, in my opinion, the ancient Celts were probably mostly R1b1b2 (M269+) of various kinds, especially P312+.

      That's just my opinion.

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      • #4
        that the old distribution of Celtic-speaking people and the distribution of M269+ coincide or overlap to a very great extent.
        I would estaminate, if 30% of them had this haplogroup, this would already be enough to create this effect.
        It does not need to be "mostly" (>80% or so)

        Example is R1a.
        ONly 1/3 of the Norse Vikings had R1a. Still you can find it at any place where Norse vikings had been.
        The presence of R1a makes even the most notable difference compared to settlements of Danish vikings.
        Last edited by Daniel72; 18 June 2009, 08:21 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Daniel72 View Post
          I would estaminate, if 30% of them had this haplogroup, this would already be enough to create this effect.
          It does not need to be "mostly" (>80% or so)
          Well, theoretically, all you would really need is one.

          But the chances of y-haplogroup success increase with numbers, so I think it likely the Celts were mostly, although not exclusively, R1b1b2 of various kinds.

          By the way, I wouldn't define "mostly" as needing to be in excess of 80%. If by "mostly" one means "more than any other haplogroup", then all that is required is a plurality. If, on the other hand, by "mostly" one means a majority, then 51% would be all that is required.
          Last edited by Stevo; 19 June 2009, 07:48 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stevo View Post
            By the way, I wouldn't define "mostly" as needing to be in excess of 80%. If by "mostly" one means "more than any other haplogroup", then all that is required is a plurality. If, on the other hand, by "mostly" one means a majority, then 51% would be all that is required.
            Well, then the population of Germany is mostly female.

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            • #7
              Well, I somehow dislike wordings like this. Because they exclude others.

              If I say that Germans are mostly female, I kind of make the suggestion that they are normaly not male. Or that only female Germans are real Germans or something like that.

              Females are the largest gender in Germany. They even hold the absolute majority. Males may be a minority. But they should be mentioned.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by spruithean View Post
                I don't think all Celts are R1b1b2. Celts could be anything from R1b, I2b, I2a, etc. maybe even I1.

                Not sure where R-M269 originated. Try looking on wikipedia or something. It probably originated in the Near East, or at least came from there like most European Haplogroups.
                I think you are right.The Celts were a mixture of haplogroups.I suppose it doesnt really matter where R-M269 originated.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                  . . . I suppose it doesnt really matter where R-M269 originated.
                  It may not matter to you, but it does to me!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Daniel72 View Post
                    Well, I somehow dislike wordings like this. Because they exclude others.

                    If I say that Germans are mostly female, I kind of make the suggestion that they are normaly not male. Or that only female Germans are real Germans or something like that.

                    Females are the largest gender in Germany. They even hold the absolute majority. Males may be a minority. But they should be mentioned.
                    What is true is true. If the population of Germany is mostly female, then it is, and there is no reason not to say so.

                    "Excluding others" is not in and of itself always a bad thing. Reality does it all the time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stevo View Post
                      What is true is true. If the population of Germany is mostly female, then it is, and there is no reason not to say so.

                      "Excluding others" is not in and of itself always a bad thing. Reality does it all the time.
                      Yeah.
                      But imagine a Celtic version of the Nazis.

                      Testing whole populations and sending anyone who is not R-M269 to the Gas Chambers.

                      Or ethnical weapons.
                      Viruses or Nano-Bots who fly though the air and kill anyone who has not the right haplogroup.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Daniel72 View Post
                        Yeah.
                        But imagine a Celtic version of the Nazis.

                        Testing whole populations and sending anyone who is not R-M269 to the Gas Chambers.

                        Or ethnical weapons.
                        Viruses or Nano-Bots who fly though the air and kill anyone who has not the right haplogroup.
                        Oh, good grief!

                        I don't imagine such things.

                        This is a hobby for me. My ancestors were human beings, not "Aryan Supermen". Heck, they got their butts whipped often enough! Who could imagine some sort of superiority for them?

                        To be honest with you, I think modern political correctness is more of a danger right now than what you have cooked up above. Everybody and his brother are lining up to fight imaginary Nazis. Easier to fight willow-the-wisps than any real threat, I guess.
                        Last edited by Stevo; 20 June 2009, 07:27 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Um. Is this slightly out of hand?

                          Why does one need to imagine Haplogroup genocide??

                          I often wonder if Hitler was a J2 of some sort or maybe even G wouldn't that throw him off... Even his Aryan race business.... he didn't even look it himself.

                          But anyways back to R-M269. It is important to know where it originated, but its claiming whether its Celtic or Germanic or something that isn't important (or at least to me!).

                          I so far have two tested ancestors descending from this R-M269 person. Although one is so far a un-SNP tested R1b1b2 and a R-M222 from Ireland.

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                          • #14
                            Well, I am interested in knowing whether my ancient ancestors were Celts or Germans, but out of curiosity, not because I think being one or the other is some sort of claim to fame.

                            It's a shame we can't talk about these sorts of things without having to write reams to qualify what we say so that we make the proper number of bows toward and burn the right amount of incense before the altar of political correctness.

                            Ever get the feeling that the mere mention European ancestors incites others to immediately assume you are some sort of closet racist?

                            It gets old.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stevo View Post
                              Well, I am interested in knowing whether my ancient ancestors were Celts or Germans, but out of curiosity, not because I think being one or the other is some sort of claim to fame.

                              It's a shame we can't talk about these sorts of things without having to write reams to qualify what we say so that we make the proper number of bows toward and burn the right amount of incense before the altar of political correctness.

                              Ever get the feeling that the mere mention European ancestors incites others to immediately assume you are some sort of closet racist?

                              It gets old.
                              I to am interested in knowing whether my ancient ancestors where Scandinavian or what..... With roots in Scotland and a member of I1 its hard to say. But I don't think finding out what your ancient ancestors were makes you any better or worse.

                              I do get that feeling sometimes. Perhaps one day that will disappear.

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