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Do I have a Haplotype?

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  • Do I have a Haplotype?



    I've extensively tested with FTDNA for some time now, but I don't seem to be in any sort of cluster. Is this due to insufficient data from my SNP grouping? I would like to know if my STR is modal with the central Pyrenean or with some other group of my SNP in Iberia, Britain, France or Northern Africa. The whole purpose of testing my SNP was to help find an ancestral place of origin for my ancestry and work my way forward chronologically and geographically to now. It seems the more logical thing to do is determine my cluster as the SNP is too widely distributed, yet with low numbers, its hard to get a bead on my ancestral line and true place of origin within this SNP. I've also tested for my autsomal DNA and though I'm not 100% sure, but I see what appears to be a lineage in Tunisia. I would assume this autosomal data is from my father's side as my SNP is found in Tunisia. Though I can't completely dismiss my maternal T2 as it allegedly arose out of Mesopotamia. However, I would assume my father's side based on genetic physical features on having a darker skin, dark hair and eyes whereas my maternal line does not fit that description whatsoever going all the way back to my great grandmother.

    Arch

  • #2
    Yes, You Have A Haplotype!

    Arch,

    To answer the question in your thread heading, yes, you have a Haplotype. It is the results of your STR tests. Depending on the number of markers you have had reported you would have a 12 marker Haplotype, a 25 marker Haplotype, a 37 marker Haplotype and maybe a 67 marker Haplotype.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "SNP Grouping". Are you referring to your Haplogroup: tested or predicted?

    Have you uploaded your results to Ysearch? If so what is your ID? What is your Haplogroup? Has it been verified?

    So far you have blindfolded us, turned out the lights and asked us what we see?

    Comment


    • #3
      Sorry my bad. I mean does my SNP have clusters that help identify a more specific regional frequency. My SNP is SRY2627 (confirmed). I am trying to determine which area of Iberia my SNP mutated and I think I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on it. It looks like it may have originated in Zaragosa to Llieda regions of Spain connecting it to the Celtiberi and/or Ilergetes of Llieda (identified as Celtiberi by Polybius).

      Interestingly a connection of Celtiberi can be found near Toulouse at Convenae Calagorris where some Celtiberians were possibly deported to Calahorris just north of Zaragosa. Obviously they would have moved through the Central Pyrenees and its exactly where the numbers are highest for this smallish subclade. I am interested in seeing the connection with the Carthaginians, since many Celtiberi were in modern day Tunisia near Sicca, Utica and Carthage.

      I'm interested to see which regions findings of the subclade are highest and determine which tribe each cluster associates with (e.g., Belli, Pelendones, Titti, Ilergetes, Lusones, etc.). I'm hoping Dr. Spencer Wells can do a study on this and make comparisons to Zaragosa, Calatayud/Jalon River and see what matches are found in Tunisia. It would be neat to see how this subclade is so strongly found with Berber and J2 types from the Maghreb regions but also in places like Cantabria at the headwaters of the Ebro; also Zamora, Llieda, and Zaragosa. I can hope, can't I?

      Sorry for making everybody blind. LOL.
      Arch

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Arch,
        can you tell us your ysearch-id? I would like to compare.

        Comment


        • #5
          My YSearch ID is: QZ8NP

          Comment


          • #6
            I find it a little odd that you don't belong to the parent project R1b and subclades.

            You must know from your extensive testing that not everyone enters data into ysearch.

            Comment


            • #7
              Didn't you already have an account on here?

              Or did you lose your password?

              Yepp everyone has a haplotype its like a phone number!

              But about SNP grouping..... well get SNP tested and find you grouping?

              Comment


              • #8
                Used to, and yes forgot password, moved, changed ISPs, etc. and gave up on trying to access the account. Moved over to DNA-Forums for a stint and just disappeared from FTDNA forums as it didn't seem as lively. FTDNA is just as it was since I "disappeared" from the scene here. DNA-Forums has reached the ho-hum stage that FTDNA forums have been at since a few years back.

                However, I remain positive some big breakthroughs are around the corner. I am really hoping for autosomal results to be interpreted rather leave it to a person like myself who lacks the mental willpower to figure it out. With the autosomal DNA tied to Deep SNP and hopefully some clustering will help to determine a more precise geographic origin for members within a subclade. Just add dates and this would give us an idea which culture each person's ancestoral history is associated with.

                Arch

                Comment


                • #9
                  I dont know if I understand what you want.
                  At the moment, I think you are looking for matches with "modal types"?

                  What I can find in your ysearch are for example (in the order that Ysearch lists it):

                  OMorgan modal type: 25/31
                  R1b Modal 20 (Germany): 14/20
                  Irish Modal: 15/17
                  German R1b1c9a Modal: 12/12
                  Gallia Belgica Modal: 12/12
                  Gaulish Modal: 12/12
                  AngliaModal (Belgium): 12/12
                  Welsh tribal modal: 12/12
                  Ancient Celtic modal: 12/12
                  Ancient Belgae modal: 12/12
                  Frankish modal: 12/12
                  Frisian modal: 12/12
                  French Norman modal: 12/12

                  Quiet disturbing that there are tons of Celtic matches AND Germanic matches (Anglia, Frisians, French Normans, Franks)
                  Last edited by Daniel72; 18 June 2009, 04:12 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Woot?

                    It does not accept the list...

                    Well sorry. Cant help you.

                    Edit: Ah finaly. (tried 4 times to edit it)
                    Now the list is in.

                    I think it was because of the thing after the O in OMorgan. It did cut it after that.
                    Last edited by Daniel72; 18 June 2009, 04:21 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm not surprised to see that mixture. My assumption would be the upstream subclades originated somewhere where Germanic and Celtic tribes bordered each other. In particular Western Switzerland, SW Germany and I would be sure that Belgae Gallic people were Celtic next to the Western Germans of Frisia. The only other explanations I could think of are the Cimbri who made their way to Bordeaux and through the Pyrenees. Seeing as how the Cimbri originated from Denmark and made it all the way to Spain is interesting. I would even venture to say that Cimbri could have been Celtic. Though I'm sure the Vandals, Suebi and Visigoths are much younger than my subclade. As well, the borderlands or Marches of the Celtic world in Britain in Wales, Cornwall/Devon, etc with the new Germanics (West Saxons, etc.) are all events that occured during the Dark Ages

                      Maybe, another explanation could be that SRY2627 subclade is much older than what I'm finding from the studies thus linking a similarity to an earlier point in time. Frequencies are highest near the Pyrenees and Ebro River Basin. So what does that tell me? Age range some 2,800 to 3,500 y.a. (800 BCE to 1500 BCE). There earliest possible known Germanic tribe in Iberia were possibly called Germani in southern Iberia. However, identified as Celtic on some maps.

                      What I find interesting is the word Ilergete and I wonder what connection that could have to the Geats (a Germanic tribe from around the region of the Cimbri) most likely southern Sweden or Gotland. The other odd thing are the significant amount of Germanic surnames in YSearch with this subclade. I'm not sure how to explain that except Celtic DNA living in a Germanic world at time when surnames become common practice.

                      I'm pretty convinced that SRY2627 arose during the Urnfield Culture and then become a part of the Iberian/Celtiberian culture and settled had mostly in the Ebro River Basin from near Picos De Europa, in the Central-Eastern Pyrenees and southwards to the Iberian Mountains and Balearic Sea.

                      Arch

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well. Celts in Germany....
                        the company iGENEA from Siwtzerland. (FTDNA reseller) has some disputed ideas about "primitive tribes" in Europe (and claim to be able to tell them apart by DNA. And uhm yes... by the first 12 )

                        Some time ago, especially one of their claim made it into German media in a massive way:

                        "Only 6% of the Germans stem from Germanic tribes! WOOT WOOT!"

                        Ok, you can imagine, you buy that newspaper after this headline on the frontpage.

                        Well, in the text itself in then explained, only 6% of the paternal lines of modern Germans are Germanic. But about 50% of the maternal lines.

                        Oh and yes, they tell you the "Primitive tribe" by HVR1 alone.

                        Well, besides that I meanwhile have some big doubts, their idea of Germany is like this:

                        (All lineages, paternal and maternal together):

                        Celtic tribes: 45%
                        Germanic tribes: 25%
                        Slavic tribes: 20%
                        Jews: 10%

                        Oh yes.... now wait this is interesting...

                        Poland:
                        Germanic tribes: 60%
                        Slavic tribes: 32%
                        Jews: 8%

                        I mean, ok, there IS dispute about several ancient Cultures in Poland.
                        Specially the so called Przeworsk Culture, wich German scientists claim Germanic and Polish scientists claim Slavic.

                        By the way, part of the Przeworsk culture are quiet famous tribes like the Vandals and the Burgundians.

                        Or the Lugians. Another tribe of the Przeworsk Culture. Wich is believed to have been assimiliated by the Vandals later.

                        here its even worse. The Lugians are claimed by all 3: Germans, Celts, Slavs as beeing theirs
                        Of course.... Tacitus writes that the Lugians are the tallest and physical strongest Germans out there.
                        By Tacitus times, the Lugians lived in Silesia. Wraclaw (Breslau) region. wich is indeed a place that apears to have been settled by all 3 at a time.

                        Well, whatever....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The upper Oder River valley (Silesia) was a path to Moravia and the south. From what I've seen on various maps, several tribes slowly migrated that way; so I can see where they would merge (e.g. Vandals and Rugians).

                          Somewhere in Hesse (or nearby) along a river is a monument to a battle between invading Germans and the local population ("Celts"?). I was there once on a Sunday drive in the country.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Daniel72 View Post
                            Well. Celts in Germany....
                            the company iGENEA from Siwtzerland. (FTDNA reseller) has some disputed ideas about "primitive tribes" in Europe (and claim to be able to tell them apart by DNA. And uhm yes... by the first 12 )

                            Some time ago, especially one of their claim made it into German media in a massive way:

                            "Only 6% of the Germans stem from Germanic tribes! WOOT WOOT!"

                            Ok, you can imagine, you buy that newspaper after this headline on the frontpage.

                            Well, in the text itself in then explained, only 6% of the paternal lines of modern Germans are Germanic. But about 50% of the maternal lines.

                            Oh and yes, they tell you the "Primitive tribe" by HVR1 alone.

                            Well, besides that I meanwhile have some big doubts, their idea of Germany is like this:

                            (All lineages, paternal and maternal together):

                            Celtic tribes: 45%
                            Germanic tribes: 25%
                            Slavic tribes: 20%
                            Jews: 10%

                            Oh yes.... now wait this is interesting...

                            Poland:
                            Germanic tribes: 60%
                            Slavic tribes: 32%
                            Jews: 8%

                            I mean, ok, there IS dispute about several ancient Cultures in Poland.
                            Specially the so called Przeworsk Culture, wich German scientists claim Germanic and Polish scientists claim Slavic.

                            By the way, part of the Przeworsk culture are quiet famous tribes like the Vandals and the Burgundians.

                            Or the Lugians. Another tribe of the Przeworsk Culture. Wich is believed to have been assimiliated by the Vandals later.

                            here its even worse. The Lugians are claimed by all 3: Germans, Celts, Slavs as beeing theirs
                            Of course.... Tacitus writes that the Lugians are the tallest and physical strongest Germans out there.
                            By Tacitus times, the Lugians lived in Silesia. Wraclaw (Breslau) region. wich is indeed a place that apears to have been settled by all 3 at a time.

                            Well, whatever....
                            Hmmmm.... really iGENEA can see through the mists of time with only 12 markers and tell us which tribe a 12 marker haplotype belongs to? Wow!! Why hasn't FTDNA come up with this remarkable ability? I do remember a certain Dr. Oppenheimer in cahoots, I mean coordination with EA could do quite a detailed explanation where British ancestry originated. Maybe Dr. Krahn has something up his sleeve (LOL) that he's not telling us about.

                            I'm really aching for Dr. Spencer Wells to find some more old mummified signifcant leaders of certain tribes and then extract the genetic material from their molars, etc. It would be interesting to obtain the DNA from Hannibal, Augustus Caesar, Theodoric the Great, Charlemagne, King Alfred the Great, etc. provided they weren't cremated or picked apart by vultures and wolves.

                            Arch

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              @ Arch
                              If you want to know your tribe just write to iGenea. Dont know how much it is when you already got your markers tested, just ask.

                              I'm really aching for Dr. Spencer Wells to find some more old mummified signifcant leaders of certain tribes and then extract the genetic material from their molars, etc. It would be interesting to obtain the DNA from Hannibal, Augustus Caesar, Theodoric the Great, Charlemagne, King Alfred the Great, etc. provided they weren't cremated or picked apart by vultures and wolves.
                              Thats what we're all waiting for.

                              Comment

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