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My World view changed with my DNA result

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  • spruithean
    replied
    Originally posted by radio1 View Post
    I think once you get a chance to live with these results for a little while you'll see that you are, exactly who you've always been. No matter what you may perceive to be different or some kind of betrayal of your genes, is only a bunch of numbers and letters on a piece of paper. I'm sure you are the same terrific person, searching, intellegent, striving for answers and educated person that your parents raised. It is merely your own perception of what you are (as opposed to who your) that has changed. If you're happy in your own skin you should remain that way -- if you're suffereing as a result of finding that you may have had a European ancestor and that it suddenly affects the way you perceive yourself, then perhaps you're being too judgemental of yourself and what you think is your place in the universe.
    I've been working on my genetics for nearly 6 years. Both my parents are now deceased and obviously my grandparents too. So the only story I have left, aside from the few I learned as a child, are from my genes. My mother also had the H gene. Actually HV1, which I hear is rare. And yet I've located 20 other identical matches for my Full Genome (mita) and I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled to find others with whom I know I have an unbreakable connection. We've mostly e-mailed each other and found that most of our families are from within about 50 to 75 miles of each other, although none has yet found a common ancestor. We all like to talk, some of us have been in journalism, or writing or like words.
    I say, pursue the change, enbrace it. It may be a surprise to you, but it's what made you who and what you are. Celebrate the varieties of genomes. You are so much, you bring so many peoples together. Perhaps you are meant for very great things.
    Great post.

    Veltvet, I think you should watch these videos on youtube,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=804DmW87EoM Tom Joyner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9SeE...eature=related Tina Turner

    From these videos there will be more links to videos of many African American stars who found out that they have European ancestors.

    Tina Turner got a DNA result of 33% European and next 0% Native American.

    and all this time she thought she was at least quarter or something Native American....

    Tom Joyner even discovered that he has a white ancestor.

    Haplogroups have nothing to do with skin colour.

    There is a user on here that had their yDNA tested and it turned out Haplogroup I1, a very Northern European haplogroup, and this user was African American.

    Good luck Velvet,
    spruithean

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  • radio1
    replied
    For Velvet

    I think once you get a chance to live with these results for a little while you'll see that you are, exactly who you've always been. No matter what you may perceive to be different or some kind of betrayal of your genes, is only a bunch of numbers and letters on a piece of paper. I'm sure you are the same terrific person, searching, intellegent, striving for answers and educated person that your parents raised. It is merely your own perception of what you are (as opposed to who your) that has changed. If you're happy in your own skin you should remain that way -- if you're suffereing as a result of finding that you may have had a European ancestor and that it suddenly affects the way you perceive yourself, then perhaps you're being too judgemental of yourself and what you think is your place in the universe.
    I've been working on my genetics for nearly 6 years. Both my parents are now deceased and obviously my grandparents too. So the only story I have left, aside from the few I learned as a child, are from my genes. My mother also had the H gene. Actually HV1, which I hear is rare. And yet I've located 20 other identical matches for my Full Genome (mita) and I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled to find others with whom I know I have an unbreakable connection. We've mostly e-mailed each other and found that most of our families are from within about 50 to 75 miles of each other, although none has yet found a common ancestor. We all like to talk, some of us have been in journalism, or writing or like words.
    I say, pursue the change, enbrace it. It may be a surprise to you, but it's what made you who and what you are. Celebrate the varieties of genomes. You are so much, you bring so many peoples together. Perhaps you are meant for very great things.

    Leave a comment:


  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by VelvetVellocet View Post
    ...
    It's difficult to search ancestry.com records to find the original maternal ancestor who came to the USA because I only have one last name (paternal) and I can find nothing about his wife (my mtDNA link) online. I believe I must query the physical records of the states where I have knowledge of their residency to uncover the maternal last names. Does anyone on this forum have any help or links where I can find additional information?...
    Right, in order to discover maternal surnames you have to research state records for marriages under the paternal surname within a limited range of years in which the marriage could have taken place. Some states arrange such records by county or require you designate in which county the marriage occurred. You could also search church sacramental records for marriages, and/or search state birth records for children of a union that may or may not include the maternal surname. Once you have a maternal surname you can follow-up on that family through the census, and then in the same sorts of state records. Also avail yourself of the expertise of the appropriate FTDNA Surname project; someone in that project may be able able to fill in a gap or give you a lead if you get stuck, and your research results are an asset to a surname project!

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  • PDHOTLEN
    replied
    Originally posted by tomcat View Post

    In 1776 The Quakers required members to ... or face expulsion from their congegation, but
    Daniel Boone was expelled from the Quakers too (but apparently re-accepted later) for some infraction or other; something to do with his choice of girl to marry or similar.

    Leave a comment:


  • GregKiroKHR1bL1
    replied
    Not Including the Islands

    History of Virginia
    1670: Blacks or Indians could no longer own white indentured servants

    Leave a comment:


  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by VelvetVellocet View Post
    ...
    From what I know about my maternal side, there was no slavery associated with her family history they were northerners who lived on the West VA/Ohio border in the 1800's.
    ...
    I know I'm grasping at ideas but it makes me feel odd to know I have an H haplogroup, my physical appearance (which is only an expression of genes and alleles mixing up to make me look like who I am by DNA - I understand this point - plus my dad is E group and of African ancestry - accounts for my appearance) yet the world sees me as a black female and yet I can also look toward Europe for my genetic ancestry from my mother's mtDNA legacy.
    ...
    So, it seems that at some point in time a woman who was ancestrally European joined an African American lineage and her descendants have since identified as African American (likely re-enforced by social prejudice). On the face of it, that seems more likely to have occurred in the northern states although there is a history of inter-racial marriage in the Tidewater between white women and free men of color and property, and the very first recorded Africans in the Virginia colony were cargo on a foundered ship who were not enslaved. Slavery developed over time and was undone in time.

    In 1776 The Quakers required members to free their slaves or face expulsion from their congegation, but that decree followed years of agitation (and emancipation) within the Society. In 1780 Massachusetts abolished slavery in their commonwealth and Pennsylvania adopted a policy of gradual emancipation. In 1784 Rhode Island and Connecticut followed Pennsylvania, followed by New York in 1799. The US banned importation of slaves in 1800 and New Jersey adopted gradual emancipation in 1804. In 1807 England and the US prohibited their citizens from engaging in the slave trade and in 1820 England began enforcing their ban with naval power. So, your African American family's presence on the Northwest frontier could be a story of a family of free people of color.
    Last edited by tomcat; 11 June 2009, 11:46 AM.

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  • PDHOTLEN
    replied
    Most of us are quite mixed up when it comes to ancestors. I certainly am a mixed bag, even if all my ancestors appear to have come from Europe. But with the mitochondrial dna, well, there is something to do with metabolism and metabolic heat differences; supposed metabolic adaptation to cold climate, where "H" is supposed to be heat-generating (or something like that). So if a person is perceived to be Afro-American, it is assumed that he or she is vulnerable to cold injury. But if said person has the heat-generating variety of "H", for example, that assumption would be erroneous. I recall in the army, black troops were automatically considered vulnerable to cold injury. But maybe they should each be mtDNA tested to determine their metabolic heat range (or something like that).

    Leave a comment:


  • East-Iberian
    replied
    I think its not better to judge people by their mtDNA than to judge them by skin colour.

    This result doesnt change who you are, it just shows some detail of your ancestry and it should not force you to feel in another way about yourself than you did before.
    And its not a very big detail, of course it sounds important because you get a new brand saying "haplogroup H" but actually it is possible that its only a very small part of your DNA that is european, depends on the generation your european ancestress lived in. I guess it was not your grand-mother who was european, was she? So if it was your great-grandmother than means 12,5% - not that much, if that helps you.
    It is also possible that your maternal line is not european, because H does not only exist in Europa but also northern Africa, the Middle East and western parts of Asia.

    Question: From what I understand about my mtDNA and please correct me if I'm wrong, it reaches back at least 1000 years more/less to the point where my genetic lineage comes to meet me today in the USA as I live.
    Your mtDNA as every other mtDNA reaches back to this one woman that we call mitochondrial Eve who lived about 175,000 years ago in Africa. Your result shows the route of migration that your female ancestral line took from Africa to the Middle East and then to Europe or some region near Europe.

    Is there any way that my mtDNA could change locations?
    Can I change my mtDNA result?
    Dont know exactly what you mean with your first question but your mtDNA (and the mtDNA of your children and your daugthers children etc.) will always be the same. Of course there are changes in mtDNA but they happen incidentially and dont change the haplogroup, it will always stay group H.

    Could it be wrong?
    No. Only if somebody in the lab made a mistake and mixed up the samples but that should not happen.

    The original genetic marker is the same for everyone who takes this test and begins in Africa and travels around the globe until it ends, and my mtDNA stops in Europe?!
    In some way yes. If you follow up the maternal lines of every person you will end up 175,000 years ago at this one woman in Africa i mentioned above. Some people stayed in Africa others did not and travled around and your female line came to Europe. But of course the mtDNA changes all the time, no matter if people travel or dont, we just can see the travel routs by comparing todays mtDNA. The last stage or your route was Europe, yes, but the next one is Northern America where you live and in 20,000 years if some of your descendents do a test they maybe can see that their line came from Northern America (and was in Europe before).

    I hope that helps you a little bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • VelvetVellocet
    replied
    Originally posted by Daniel72 View Post
    Once oyu have your HVR2 done, it will be much better to check "recent" anchestry.

    A full match in HVR1+HVR2 is rated similiar to a 37/37 in Y-DNA.
    A common anchestor about 7-10 generations ago.
    My results will be known in July.

    I will surely follow up and post them here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daniel72
    replied
    Once oyu have your HVR2 done, it will be much better to check "recent" anchestry.

    A full match in HVR1+HVR2 is rated similiar to a 37/37 in Y-DNA.
    A common anchestor about 7-10 generations ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • VelvetVellocet
    replied
    Originally posted by cacio View Post
    Regarding some of your questions.

    Save for a mix-up at the lab, your mtdna results shouldn't change with additional information. Sometimes FTDNA did make mistakes in the assignment, but in strange cases with many mutations, and I think they're more careful now.
    I believe I mentioned in my original post that I'm having my HVR2 tested, to narrow down my mtDNA matches, DNA doen't lie.

    I have ZERO doubt that I'm H haplogroup, why would you?

    I"m attempting to compare my dna result with my maternal line ancestry, which you tossed off as a mistake?

    No, it's not a mistake, it's fact.

    Maybe you have to open your mind that my genetics line up with a European lineage as I am trying to understand as well.

    No slight of hand, not magic.

    Facts are facts.

    Your curiosity is part of my question.
    Last edited by VelvetVellocet; 11 June 2009, 01:38 AM.

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  • cacio
    replied
    Regarding some of your questions.

    Save for a mix-up at the lab, your mtdna results shouldn't change with additional information. Sometimes FTDNA did make mistakes in the assignment, but in strange cases with many mutations, and I think they're more careful now.

    As you say, mutations in mtdna are very infrequent, so from your results you cannot say anything precise about recent relationship (ie, say, whether two people had the same ancestor within, say, a couple of hundred of years). It's more about common ancestry going back a long time, a few thousand years.

    As for mtdna changing locations, I'm not sure what you mean. If by that you mean that there are women with your mtdna who moved around and travelled to various places, this is possible. Haplogroup H was born perhaps in the middle East or in Europe thousands of years ago (perhaps 30K years ago), and most member of H are found in Europe and also in north africa and a little in the middle east. There extremely little H south of the Sahara. Still, it is certainly possible that one woman's lineage, over time, moved from north africa south.

    Probabilistically, given the numbers on the frequency of H, it is more likely that your ancestor was a woman of recent European ancestry in the US. But you cannot exclude with 100% probability that it was in fact a subsaharan woman, whose ancestor perhaps a few thousand years ago came from more northern places.

    cacio

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  • VelvetVellocet
    replied
    Interesting perspectives

    Thank you all for your input on my post.

    From what I know about my maternal side, there was no slavery associated with her family history they were northerners who lived on the West VA/Ohio border in the 1800's.

    It's difficult to search ancestry.com records to find the original maternal ancestor who came to the USA because I only have one last name (paternal) and I can find nothing about his wife (my mtDNA link) online. I believe I must query the physical records of the states where I have knowledge of their residency to uncover the maternal last names. Does anyone on this forum have any help or links where I can find additional information?

    Question: From what I understand about my mtDNA and please correct me if I'm wrong, it reaches back at least 1000 years more/less to the point where my genetic lineage comes to meet me today in the USA as I live.

    Is there any way that my mtDNA could change locations?

    Can I change my mtDNA result?

    Could it be wrong?

    The original genetic marker is the same for everyone who takes this test and begins in Africa and travels around the globe until it ends, and my mtDNA stops in Europe?!

    I know I'm grasping at ideas but it makes me feel odd to know I have an H haplogroup, my physical appearance (which is only an expression of genes and alleles mixing up to make me look like who I am by DNA - I understand this point - plus my dad is E group and of African ancestry - accounts for my appearance) yet the world sees me as a black female and yet I can also look toward Europe for my genetic ancestry from my mother's mtDNA legacy.

    I would be lying to say it's not important how the outside world sees me as a person in my own skin, because people will see me as "only a black female" and they have made judgments about the way I look without any clue of my deep genetic mtDNA result. That is a sociological construct of American culture - we judge by skin color without regard for anything else.
    Last edited by VelvetVellocet; 11 June 2009, 12:42 AM.

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  • john franks
    replied
    As a non-American I find your question baffling and a bit troubling. My view is quite simply that you are who you think you are. Your family background is African-American so that is your cultural identity. No one else can tell you that you are something other than that. Your DNA results tell you about your ancestry and that is very interesting but they can't alter your cultural identity.

    However I notice a number of contributors to these forums seem to identify quite strongly with ancient peoples who they are descended from. Personally, I find that the further back in time we go the less I am interested in my own ancestry and the more I am fascinated by the fate of peoples as a whole.

    John

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  • Daniel72
    replied
    Originally posted by DeeTyler View Post
    The amazing part of this all is, I wonder how perceptions would change if everyone knew that at some point in time we were ALL African!
    Well, at one point in time we had been ALL fishes. I still eat them.

    The one thing that was confirmed to me through this is that it's unfortunate how we separate each other by races, border lines, religions, etc ...
    you dont get a "we" without a "them"
    It always boils down to "We against them" otherwise you have "me against everyone" wich is as bad.

    Unfortunately we have no neanderthalians left to unite against them.
    We need some alien invadors.

    EDIT:
    Its the failure of the EU btw.
    I recently heard this in radio. the problem is: you cant make the people feel patriotic to the EU if you dont create an common enemy for the EU. But the EU does not want to create an enemy. So it will never ever reach the peoples hearts like a nationstate.

    No light without shadow.
    2 humans only work together if they need to fight a third.

    And btw...
    the "Me against everyone" came already to live.
    In Germany, the decades after the war, many was done to destroy nationalistic feelings and to declare war a super bad thing. The result was the rise of egoism. ME ME ME!! And the rise of general violence against everyone.
    Last edited by Daniel72; 7 June 2009, 01:20 PM.

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