No single match in database !

[muringan]

Hi All,

I got my 12 marker Y-DNA STR results on 21 Apr, 2009. And I do not have a single match in the whole ftDNA database or on Ysearch ! So the haplotype is unique. SNP tests are on, the results of which are expected on 8 June, 2009. Phewww.... Long time I guess !!

I happened to check on Whitey's haplogroup predictor and it predicted as H haplogroup (totally unexpected)! Cullen's predictor predicts it to be
E3b/G2c/H/.... in that order of decreasing percent probability. So both predictors seem to give unclear predictions.

My 12 marker STR values are 12-22-15-11-15-16-11-12-12-14-11-30

Now what do you guys have to say on all this ?

[Jim Honeychuck]

Many of us do not have any 12-marker matches. And many ended up in a haplogroup different from what was first predicted. For many people it is a matter of SNPs, not STRs.

Regards,
Jim

[Jim Honeychuck]

Hi All,

I got my 12 marker Y-DNA STR results on 21 Apr, 2009. And I do not have a single match in the whole ftDNA database or on Ysearch ! So the haplotype is unique. SNP tests are on, the results of which are expected on 8 June, 2009. Phewww.... Long time I guess !!

I happened to check on Whitey's haplogroup predictor and it predicted as H haplogroup (totally unexpected)! Cullen's predictor predicts it to be
E3b/G2c/H/.... in that order of decreasing percent probability. So both predictors seem to give unclear predictions.

My 12 marker STR values are 12-22-15-11-15-16-11-12-12-14-11-30

Now what do you guys have to say on all this ?

You do have some close but not perfect matches at www.yhrd.org

Regards,
Jim

[efgen]

I think there's an excellent chance you'll be an H. Check out the haplotypes in the results chart of the Y-DNA H project and you'll see the similarities. The most similar haplotype to yours is on line 29, with differences only in DYS385b and DYS439, both of which are more prone to mutations than the rest of the markers in the 12-marker panel.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/YHaploGroupH

E3b - I can see how Cullen predicted this, but the combination of your first 4 marker values would be highly unusual for an E3b, so I'm fairly sure you won't be in this haplogroup (although if I'm wrong, please let me know, since I'll want you to join the E3b project!)

G2c - Your haplotype has several significant differences from typical G2c haplotypes, so I don't expect you to be in this group either.

Something else you can check out, if you haven't already -- your Haplotree Matches page (click Haplotree, then click the Matches tab near the top instead of on the left). That will show you an anonymous list of your nearest 12-marker matches who have already been SNP-tested. What haplogroups are listed there and at what distances?

FTDNA only displays exact matches at the 12-marker level on the Y-DNA Matches page (though the RAO and Haplotree Matches pages will show near matches). At 25 markers, they allow up to 2 mismatches. At 37 markers, they allow up to 4 mismatches. And at 67 markers, they allow up to 7 mismatches.

Mismatches can happen anywhere in the haplotype. An 11/12 match has the potential to turn into a 36/37 match, which would be significant. So definitely consider testing more markers for a better comparison. At least 37 markers is typically recommended by those of us who have several years of experience with genetic genealogy.

Good luck!

Elise

[muringan]

Thanks Jim and Elise for your replies.

I did check the 'matches' on my account page.
At one step mutation there is an H1 guy. At two step mutation there are some H guys again and one G2a guy. At 3 and 4 step mutations there are again H/H1/H1a guys and also many G/G2 and some E1b1a guys.

Well I would like to know what are the exact origins of H since it is found in Indian sub-continent and Gypsies mainly but has also been reported in Arabs and some other middle-eastern groups too (as I happened to read on wikipedia article on H haplogroup). So what does this say since my paternal family is of Christian Jewish descent but settled in India for almost two millenia as migrants. Thats why I said H haplogroup sounds unexpected! SNPs anyway would clear the confusion I presume but just curious seeing the distant matches.

Your comments are welcome....

[Jim Honeychuck]

The family lived in India? Sounds like it adopted a local boy as a son at some time in the past. Is adoption practiced in that subculture?

Regards,
Jim

[Daniel72]

Passes by and drops a H map.

Well, I mean there are maps out there that drop out the more light parts, but wouldnt it be much more "Unexpected" for say a Japanese?

Well, but I know what you mean. I expected H (because the chance was 45%) and got K.

[Asturianu]

Who did you test with, Muringan?

[efgen]

Passes by and drops a H map.

Well, I mean there are maps out there that drop out the more light parts, but wouldnt it be much more "Unexpected" for say a Japanese?

I expected H (because the chance was 45%) and got K.

We're talking about Y-DNA haplogroup H in this thread, not mtDNA H. I assume the map you posted was for mtDNA H.

Elise

[Daniel72]

We're talking about Y-DNA haplogroup H in this thread, not mtDNA H. I assume the map you posted was for mtDNA H.

Elise

Ah ok. Sorry

[spruithean]

Muringan you do have some 10/12 matches on Ysearch.


W342S Muringan Israel Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
YCQB7 Mashruwala India H1a (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
AA9QZ Carter Virginia, USA H1a (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
K78WD Show Bailey Virginia, USA H1a (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
MSB2J Campbell Scotland H1a (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
PQ2CC Chowdhury Noornagur, Bangladesh H1a (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
VH4GZ Naser Lahore, Pakistan Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2

[muringan]

Asturianu,

I tested with FTDNA.....

[muringan]

Since all my matches are 10/12 or less than that..... The MRCA (presuming 1 gen is 35 yrs. on average) comes to...

31*35 = 1085 yrs. (50% probability)
>100*35 = >3500 yrs. (90% probability)
again >3500 yrs. (95% probability)

The first estimation with 50% probability is understandable at around 1085 yrs. BUT... the matches, half of them are Romany Gypsies from US/Europe and the others are Pakistanis/Bangladeshis.

My family has been in South of India (Malabar, Kerala) for around 2000 yrs. (as family history claims) and Christians since then (1st cent. AD Nazarene Jewish converts under the East Syrian (Assyrian/COE) Church). So the probability that I and the Romany Gypsies or people in the extreme North of the Indian sub-continent had a MRCA ~1085 yrs ago is out of logic keeping in mind all the above family history and comparative locations of the matches. Also a 50% probability could go either way if Im not wrong.

Coming to the 3500 yrs. estimation I have no clue..... So how far are the 10/12 matches in my case conclusive and logical ? I believe genealogical study is a wholistic picture of family and community traditions, historical and genetic data.

[muringan]

What are your opinions on this ?

[spruithean]

Since all my matches are 10/12 or less than that..... The MRCA (presuming 1 gen is 35 yrs. on average) comes to...

31*35 = 1085 yrs. (50% probability)
>100*35 = >3500 yrs. (90% probability)
again >3500 yrs. (95% probability)

The first estimation with 50% probability is understandable at around 1085 yrs. BUT... the matches, half of them are Romany Gypsies from US/Europe and the others are Pakistanis/Bangladeshis.

My family has been in South of India (Malabar, Kerala) for around 2000 yrs. (as family history claims) and Christians since then (1st cent. AD Nazarene Jewish converts under the East Syrian (Assyrian/COE) Church). So the probability that I and the Romany Gypsies or people in the extreme North of the Indian sub-continent had a MRCA ~1085 yrs ago is out of logic keeping in mind all the above family history and comparative locations of the matches. Also a 50% probability could go either way if Im not wrong.

Coming to the 3500 yrs. estimation I have no clue..... So how far are the 10/12 matches in my case conclusive and logical ? I believe genealogical study is a wholistic picture of family and community traditions, historical and genetic data.

Perhaps to narrow down these estimates one should refine from 12 markers to 37 or 67 markers.

I would think the Pakistani/Bangladeshis would be acceptable some what as Pakistan is north of India, sure not close to South India but still acceptable somewhat.

Many people after being raised with a certain idea of their heritage are surprised to see that they are a Haplogroup that doesn't quite point to their supposed heritage....... I know I was amazed to find out I was I1..... but then again thats still quite common for where my ancestor was from..... but not as common as R1b1b2.

Good luck to all.