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  • Daniel72
    replied
    Update....
    got the markers til 25 (yet wait for 37)
    Bets I get til now are several at -3 distance on 25.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daniel72
    replied
    Originally posted by Asturianu View Post
    Let us know what you find out, as far as matches go, friend.
    I will.

    Hm.
    for now I could tell about my HRV1+HRV2 matches.
    Ten. And all in the USA. *sigh*
    And most dont have a papertrail that actually reaches an European country. *deeper sigh*

    But there is one, who actually has a papertrail til the 17th century to a women in Hessia, Germany. Its 9 Generations from him. And the guy is the age of my parents (no wait, his grands are in the age of my greatgrands. But thats the same ) So.... its about 10 generations from me.

    She also is the last who was both, born and died in Germany. Her doughter, born in Germany, already died in USA.

    What do you think? Could that be my 7xGreatgrand mum?

    I mean, somewhere I read, if HRV1+2 match and its less then 20 matches. Then its not longer than 7-10 generations. But if its more than 20 matches it might be 10-13 generations.

    Well its 10 matches. And 10 generations... is she it?

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  • Asturianu
    replied
    Originally posted by Daniel72 View Post
    I ordered an update to 37 so far. Should get the results next week I think. (got my mtDNA updated results yesterday)
    Let us know what you find out, as far as matches go, friend.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stevo
    replied
    Originally posted by Asturianu View Post
    Interesting to see how complex this situation seems to be. What would you say the likelihood is for those of different subclades to match at 37+ markers? How much more problematic are these sorts of things for those with R1b1b2, as opposed to other haplotypes/haplogroups?
    I have never heard of an exact 37-marker match between two men of different R1b1b2 subclades, but I know of some 33/37 "matches" like that. There may be some even closer.

    What it leads me to believe is that R1b1b2 - or maybe R1b1b2a or R1b1b2a1 - expanded very quickly during the Neolithic Period and into the Bronze Age, spinning off its major subclades in pretty rapid succession.

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  • Daniel72
    replied
    I wonder if its worth anything to do all these subtests for me.
    I am a R1a (predicted R1a1) and it seems there is relatively few known about R1a in general. Compared to R1b.

    I think half of R1a does need electricity before they need a DNA test.

    Hmm.
    I have 40 matches at 12/12. Mostly in Poland and Germany and some Americans and Scotts with the surname "Douglas" wich possibly is the result of random mutation. I think R1b guys have sevral hundred?

    I ordered an update to 37 so far. Should get the results next week I think. (got my mtDNA updated results yesterday)

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  • Asturianu
    replied
    Originally posted by Stevo View Post
    No, not 9/12. 10/12.

    389-2 in both cases is 16, but for some reason (I forget why) it is reported as the sum of its value and 389-1.

    So the only differences in the first 12 markers are at 439 (a very fast mutator) and 389-1.

    And yes, that is an excellent illustration of why 12 markers are not enough, but I think anything less than 67 is insufficient, as well.

    Since I became a project admin and began running my members' haplotypes in YSearch on a regular basis, I have discovered what I would once have regarded as "close" matches at 37 markers between men who belong to different subclades.

    That is also a good reason why ALL R1b1b2s should order the Deep Clade-R test and its upgrades. It's essential to know to what subclade one belongs when evaluating a possible match.
    Interesting to see how complex this situation seems to be. What would you say the likelihood is for those of different subclades to match at 37+ markers? How much more problematic are these sorts of things for those with R1b1b2, as opposed to other haplotypes/haplogroups?

    Leave a comment:


  • Stevo
    replied
    Originally posted by Daniel72 View Post
    Oh god. Father and son would have had a 9/12 match. Makes them look like they have a common anchestor before Christ was born or so, eh?

    Question is, how often does soemthing like this happen? Every 1 Million years? or is this common?

    Edit: can it be that this is a case of adoption? he he he
    ah no, they match too well on all the other markers.

    No, not 9/12. 10/12.

    389-2 in both cases is 16, but for some reason (I forget why) it is reported as the sum of its value and 389-1.

    So the only differences in the first 12 markers are at 439 (a very fast mutator) and 389-1.

    And yes, that is an excellent illustration of why 12 markers are not enough, but I think anything less than 67 is insufficient, as well.

    Since I became a project admin and began running my members' haplotypes in YSearch on a regular basis, I have discovered what I would once have regarded as "close" matches at 37 markers between men who belong to different subclades.

    That is also a good reason why ALL R1b1b2s should order the Deep Clade-R test and its upgrades. It's essential to know to what subclade one belongs when evaluating a possible match.
    Last edited by Stevo; 9 May 2009, 01:07 PM.

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  • Daniel72
    replied
    Originally posted by spruithean View Post
    And also pointing out why testing 12 markers is quite useless when trying to find genetic relationships that are recent.

    Upgrade to 37 markers or 67 markers.
    Yeah.
    The FTDNA reseller I used (iGENEA) says, 12 Markers are just good enough to tell one the region one may be from (and even for their "Indigenous people" prediction, wich means what people you suposedly belonged at 900BC-900AD). But even in case of a 12/12 match it would be unlikely to be related because the mutations could just randomly happen to make you fit someone you dont belong to.

    It would suposedly take a minimum of 25 matching markers to think about a real relationship instead of random.
    Last edited by Daniel72; 9 May 2009, 10:59 AM.

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  • spruithean
    replied
    Originally posted by Asturianu View Post
    Could this be the result of an error on the part of the geneticists, or was that what your point was?

    Pretty crazy stuff.
    No his point was that father and son can differ at 12 markers. And match at 9/12 markers. But by testing more markers they came to be 65/67.

    And also pointing out why testing 12 markers is quite useless when trying to find genetic relationships that are recent.

    Upgrade to 37 markers or 67 markers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Asturianu
    replied
    Originally posted by rucksack View Post
    Check out this father and son so you'll understand why 12 markers is not the way to even think about anything:

    http://www.ysearch.org/research_comp...d=mare+enfield

    Don't change any of the settings, just enter the "captcha" words and hit "comparative y DNA results".

    Then, you look at the first 12 markers and tell us what you see.
    Could this be the result of an error on the part of the geneticists, or was that what your point was?

    Pretty crazy stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daniel72
    replied
    Originally posted by rucksack View Post
    Check out this father and son so you'll understand why 12 markers is not the way to even think about anything:

    http://www.ysearch.org/research_comp...d=mare+enfield

    Don't change any of the settings, just enter the "captcha" words and hit "comparative y DNA results".

    Then, you look at the first 12 markers and tell us what you see.
    Oh god. Father and son would have had a 9/12 match. Makes them look like they have a common anchestor before Christ was born or so, eh?

    Question is, how often does soemthing like this happen? Every 1 Million years? or is this common?

    Edit: can it be that this is a case of adoption? he he he
    ah no, they match too well on all the other markers.
    Last edited by Daniel72; 9 May 2009, 02:58 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • rucksack
    replied
    Check out this father and son so you'll understand why 12 markers is not the way to even think about anything:

    http://www.ysearch.org/research_comp...d=mare+enfield

    Don't change any of the settings, just enter the "captcha" words and hit "comparative y DNA results".

    Then, you look at the first 12 markers and tell us what you see.

    Leave a comment:


  • rivergirl
    replied
    Originally posted by Asturianu View Post
    Thank you for the info. I will see about joining those projects. Upon initial observation, I find no surname matches or close DNA matches. In the Family Tree DNA/Y-Search databases, however, I have located one other Iberian (from a neighboring northern region) that is a genetic distance of 1 from me. But no exact matches, other than the Germans, Luxembourger and Englishman.
    It may be that no one that your genetically related to has tested so far.

    My brother tested abt 2 1/2 years ago and still has no matches in FTDNA, ysearch, Ancestry or SMGF. (Apart from our uncle who tested)
    The family line is from England and is I1.
    Though a 11/12 match shows up on his Ancestral origins page, from France
    My great uncle from an Irish family, and SNP tested R1b M222, NW Irish Type, has only one 11/12 match.
    2 other relatives, also from Irish families, have loads of matches at 12, 25 and 37.
    All have 67 markers and SNP tested.

    Leave a comment:


  • Asturianu
    replied
    Originally posted by rivergirl View Post
    There is an Iberian Penninsular Geographic Project, and one for Spain.
    Thank you for the info. I will see about joining those projects. Upon initial observation, I find no surname matches or close DNA matches. In the Family Tree DNA/Y-Search databases, however, I have located one other Iberian (from a neighboring northern region) that is a genetic distance of 1 from me. But no exact matches, other than the Germans, Luxembourger and Englishman.

    Leave a comment:


  • Asturianu
    replied
    Let's try again.

    Thank you for the reply, Jim and "els854". I actually moved my data over to Family Tree DNA and Y-Search. It was through those databases that I was able to locate the few matches I had.

    Currently, there are no surname projects going for my particular surname, De Acuna -which is somewhat uncommon, but by no means exotic, in Iberia.

    Earlier, I decided to to dedicate some amount of time into studying my specific DYS values, in order to see if there was anything interesting to be found. From what I learned, I posses two rather rare DYS values (at least based on the sources I have checked the results against). The first is a 385a value of 10 -which has an overall distribution of about 3%. The next is a 439 value of 13 -which has an overall distribution of around 15%. I also posses a somewhat rare DYS value for 389-2 (which is 30) that has a distribution of just over 25%. In the R1b Project database I found only 7 individuals who shared my 385a value and only 2 who shared my DYS values from 393 to 388.

    So based upon the scarcity of these values (particularly of 385a), can any conclusions be drawn which could perhaps tell me anything about the distant ancestral relations I share with these Germanic individuals? Does its scarcity localize it to any specific area of Europe.

    As for the point you raised, els854, I can't locate on the page whether or not this 29 generation limitation extends to those with different surnames. Do you know if it does?

    Thanks again.

    Leave a comment:

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