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Anybody know where I can get my grubby fingers on the data about how much of SRY2627 is found in Tunisia? It seems like there's a fairly amount, perhaps reaching past 20% which is fairly significant for this subclade. I'm not sure how to explain SRY2627 being in Tunisia in such "large" numbers. What could this be attributed to? I have a couple of theories as follows:
1. Sidling Vandals.
2. Iberian or Celtiberian Mercenaries for the Carthaginians.
3. Atlantic-Mediterranean Trade Exchange Network with Carthage at axis.
4. Catalan mariner merchants.
5. Knights Templars, spread of Christianity, or older Reconquista events.
I'm more for theory #3 seeing as how Carthage was the largest city in the world at some 500,000 people around its height of power and Rome was a podunk backwoods village in comparison. The trade was extensive with the mineral wealth of the Atlantic region from Belerion (Cornwall/Devon), to the Breton Peninsula, Galicia and Tartessos (Huelva). Carthage had control from the region of Huelva/Cadiz to the Ebro River and inherited this span of trade and control from its ancestral Phoenician forebearers. What kind of relations Phoenicians had with Tartessos I'm not exactly sure. It certainly seems as if Carthage had both Iberian enemies and allies in eastern Iberia.
The other point of interest to me is noticeably SRY2627 is found highest in numbers where headwaters of major rivers immediately north and south of the Pyrenees begin. Valle De Aran (Garonne Basin-Ebro R Basin via Noguero Palleresa/Segre Rivers), Ter River-Tech R. Basins (Girona Pyrenees/Canigou), Liebana (Deva R. to Duero R. via Pisageuro R.), Pas Valley (Pas to Ebro R.), most seem to be connector points between one coastal river (Atlantic) to the other (Mediterranean). The Duero River reaches inland to the Iberian Mountains in the region of the Celtiberians nearest the Ebro R. It's a good sign that SRY2627 is Celtiberian or Lusone given the high frequency found around Porto, Portugal and then near Llieda Province of the Ilergetes with increasing frequency towards the Vall De Aran. A Celtiberian tribe known as Lusones were established nearest Llieda and supposedly moved towards the Lusitanian region and are related. I'm not 100% convinced as the numbers fade out in Valencia-Castellon and resurge in Murcia (Lorca to Cartagena). The numbers are about equal in the less populated Aragon region and the more populated Mallorca region. I'd be more convinced to say SRY2627 is Iberian as is more related to the Ilergetes which stretch from the Vall De Aran region or immediately south from Montgarri, Benasque Valley regions south of the Pyrenees. Ilergetes connect with the Mediterranean easily via Ebro River which was most likely navigable to the Ilergete territorial regions. Both the Celtiberians and Illergetes had control of the land axis trade routes across Northern Iberia from Cantabria, Northern Portugal/Southern Galicia, to the Pyrenees passing through Carfranc/Jaca, Vall De Aran, Cerdanya areas.
Ilergetes were allies of Carthage at one time and then became enemies at another time, probably were most likely mercenaries. The Ilergetes are also mentioned as Celtiberias or at least Indibil the Ileregete Chief is mentioned by Polybius to be Celtiberian. The time of the Ilergetes and Celtiberians do not go too far from the best age estimate of SRY2627 around 1300 BCE to 800 BCE. Urnfield/Late Bronze Age to Iberian/Celtiberian Iron Age 500 BCE. The spread obviously must be tied into the Urnfield/Later Maritime Bell Beakers which eventually evolved into Celtiberians/Iberians as localized cultures of Iberia. Its a matter of debate if the Maritime Bell Beakers originated from Portugal or the Rhone/Rhine corridor.
Seems like the SRY267 spread follows along the Garonne to SW England to Catalonia, especially along the central Pyrenees to the Ebro River terminus.
Which could easily explain a trade exchange network between SW England and Carthage through the Pyrenees bypassing the Greek strongholds along the Gulf de Lions, the Tartessian/Celtic strongholds along the coastal route north of Cadiz. The Ilergetes and probably their predecessors were allies to Carthage before the change of heart during the Roman conquest from the region of Tarragona, Sanguntum and Tortosa. This could explain that tin sought by the Carthaginians/Phoenicians written about by the Greeks goes along way back before the Greeks arriving to Iberia.
This could be a decent explanation as the frequency of M-167 being found highest along a line that follows from the mouth of the Ebro River to the Garonne River up northwards along the Bay of Biscay, Celtic Sea to SW Britain (Cornwall/Devon). Pushing southwards to Murcia/Cartagena to east towards Mallorca/Menorca (both islands like Ibiza were settled with peoples from Carthage). Therefore the Tunisian connection to SRY267 starts to make sense given where the Carthaginians settled and how far trade exchange networks went to supply Carthage with mineral wealth and finance its large development. Immensely incredible city with apartments, toilets, showers, and the most impressive seaport of the ancient world. Carthage's reach had to be far and wide in order to develop like it did. Iberian mercenaries, and merchants must have resided in Carthage or Utica. This may explain why SRY2627 seems to be found around Berber and J2 type haplogroups in the Pas Valley (connector point for the trade-exchange network from the Atlantic to Med Sea?) or is it attributed to a later event of reconquista since the time of the Franks, Visigoths, or Middle Ages??
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1. Sidling Vandals.
2. Iberian or Celtiberian Mercenaries for the Carthaginians.
3. Atlantic-Mediterranean Trade Exchange Network with Carthage at axis.
4. Catalan mariner merchants.
5. Knights Templars, spread of Christianity, or older Reconquista events.
I'm more for theory #3 seeing as how Carthage was the largest city in the world at some 500,000 people around its height of power and Rome was a podunk backwoods village in comparison. The trade was extensive with the mineral wealth of the Atlantic region from Belerion (Cornwall/Devon), to the Breton Peninsula, Galicia and Tartessos (Huelva). Carthage had control from the region of Huelva/Cadiz to the Ebro River and inherited this span of trade and control from its ancestral Phoenician forebearers. What kind of relations Phoenicians had with Tartessos I'm not exactly sure. It certainly seems as if Carthage had both Iberian enemies and allies in eastern Iberia.
The other point of interest to me is noticeably SRY2627 is found highest in numbers where headwaters of major rivers immediately north and south of the Pyrenees begin. Valle De Aran (Garonne Basin-Ebro R Basin via Noguero Palleresa/Segre Rivers), Ter River-Tech R. Basins (Girona Pyrenees/Canigou), Liebana (Deva R. to Duero R. via Pisageuro R.), Pas Valley (Pas to Ebro R.), most seem to be connector points between one coastal river (Atlantic) to the other (Mediterranean). The Duero River reaches inland to the Iberian Mountains in the region of the Celtiberians nearest the Ebro R. It's a good sign that SRY2627 is Celtiberian or Lusone given the high frequency found around Porto, Portugal and then near Llieda Province of the Ilergetes with increasing frequency towards the Vall De Aran. A Celtiberian tribe known as Lusones were established nearest Llieda and supposedly moved towards the Lusitanian region and are related. I'm not 100% convinced as the numbers fade out in Valencia-Castellon and resurge in Murcia (Lorca to Cartagena). The numbers are about equal in the less populated Aragon region and the more populated Mallorca region. I'd be more convinced to say SRY2627 is Iberian as is more related to the Ilergetes which stretch from the Vall De Aran region or immediately south from Montgarri, Benasque Valley regions south of the Pyrenees. Ilergetes connect with the Mediterranean easily via Ebro River which was most likely navigable to the Ilergete territorial regions. Both the Celtiberians and Illergetes had control of the land axis trade routes across Northern Iberia from Cantabria, Northern Portugal/Southern Galicia, to the Pyrenees passing through Carfranc/Jaca, Vall De Aran, Cerdanya areas.
Ilergetes were allies of Carthage at one time and then became enemies at another time, probably were most likely mercenaries. The Ilergetes are also mentioned as Celtiberias or at least Indibil the Ileregete Chief is mentioned by Polybius to be Celtiberian. The time of the Ilergetes and Celtiberians do not go too far from the best age estimate of SRY2627 around 1300 BCE to 800 BCE. Urnfield/Late Bronze Age to Iberian/Celtiberian Iron Age 500 BCE. The spread obviously must be tied into the Urnfield/Later Maritime Bell Beakers which eventually evolved into Celtiberians/Iberians as localized cultures of Iberia. Its a matter of debate if the Maritime Bell Beakers originated from Portugal or the Rhone/Rhine corridor.
Seems like the SRY267 spread follows along the Garonne to SW England to Catalonia, especially along the central Pyrenees to the Ebro River terminus.
Which could easily explain a trade exchange network between SW England and Carthage through the Pyrenees bypassing the Greek strongholds along the Gulf de Lions, the Tartessian/Celtic strongholds along the coastal route north of Cadiz. The Ilergetes and probably their predecessors were allies to Carthage before the change of heart during the Roman conquest from the region of Tarragona, Sanguntum and Tortosa. This could explain that tin sought by the Carthaginians/Phoenicians written about by the Greeks goes along way back before the Greeks arriving to Iberia.
This could be a decent explanation as the frequency of M-167 being found highest along a line that follows from the mouth of the Ebro River to the Garonne River up northwards along the Bay of Biscay, Celtic Sea to SW Britain (Cornwall/Devon). Pushing southwards to Murcia/Cartagena to east towards Mallorca/Menorca (both islands like Ibiza were settled with peoples from Carthage). Therefore the Tunisian connection to SRY267 starts to make sense given where the Carthaginians settled and how far trade exchange networks went to supply Carthage with mineral wealth and finance its large development. Immensely incredible city with apartments, toilets, showers, and the most impressive seaport of the ancient world. Carthage's reach had to be far and wide in order to develop like it did. Iberian mercenaries, and merchants must have resided in Carthage or Utica. This may explain why SRY2627 seems to be found around Berber and J2 type haplogroups in the Pas Valley (connector point for the trade-exchange network from the Atlantic to Med Sea?) or is it attributed to a later event of reconquista since the time of the Franks, Visigoths, or Middle Ages??
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