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DNA suggests ancient Irish invasion of Scotland

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  • #16
    The info in that link raises more questions. Where were the Fomarians from before they were the first to live in Ireland? I can't believe the Parthilons (where were they from?) all died from an epidemic. An epidemic wiped out every single Parthilon and none of the Fomorians?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by rainbow View Post
      Who were the original people of Ireland? Was it the Laigin from the 3rd to 1st century B.C. ? Where did they come from? Coastal Iberia? Do people from Ireland get autosomal matches to Syria & Morocco & Portugal? Is the surname Logan (in my tree) from Laigin?
      Who knows what the Laigin genetic make-up was?

      I have read that people have been in Ireland some 7000 years ago.

      Current thought says no R-L21 existed 7000 years ago.

      And if R-L21 wasn't spawned in Ireland in the Bronze age, then it came from elsewhere during the Bronze age by recent estimates.

      I provided a link to this page..it's not much to read.
      http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/ire000.htm

      (Part quote)
      "Irish History and Mythology proposed 4 invasions of Ireland"

      Cruithin.......perhaps 8th to 5th century bc.( The Priteni Britain and Ireland)
      Erainn.........perhaps 5th to 3rd century bc (Bolgi or Belgae to Ire from Eng.)
      Laigin.........perhaps 3rd to 1st century bc (from Armorica to Eng and Ireland)
      Goidel/Gael..perhaps 2nd to 1st century bc (Melisians from Gaul)

      How can one call a Campbell dna signature from Scotland Laigin?

      It can't be done....and no one is offering dna signitures for the Picts, because no one really knows who they were either.

      And i doubt very much that the surname Logan from relatively recent times can be linked to the Laigin of a time before Christ.
      Last edited by M.O'Connor; 15 April 2009, 03:59 PM.

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      • #18
        DNA suggests ancient Irish invasion of Scotland

        Yesterday in a search regarding Airghialla (Oriel), one result mentioned that the three Collas went to stay with relatives in Scotland until issues of succession to the kingdom in Arighialla
        no longer threatened them. That would still be later than the kingdon of Dal Riada by about 300 years, it could have contributed more Irish DNA to Scotland, however.

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        • #19
          Airghialla is mentioned here as well as the 3 Collas.

          http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/ire300.htm

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          • #20
            Originally posted by M.O'Connor View Post
            Who knows what the Laigin genetic make-up was?

            I have read that people have been in Ireland some 7000 years ago.

            Current thought says no R-L21 existed 7000 years ago.

            And if R-L21 wasn't spawned in Ireland in the Bronze age, then it came from elsewhere during the Bronze age by recent estimates.

            I provided a link to this page..it's not much to read.
            http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/ire000.htm

            (Part quote)
            "Irish History and Mythology proposed 4 invasions of Ireland"

            Cruithin.......perhaps 8th to 5th century bc.( The Priteni Britain and Ireland)
            Erainn.........perhaps 5th to 3rd century bc (Bolgi or Belgae to Ire from Eng.)
            Laigin.........perhaps 3rd to 1st century bc (from Armorica to Eng and Ireland)
            Goidel/Gael..perhaps 2nd to 1st century bc (Melisians from Gaul)

            How can one call a Campbell dna signature from Scotland Laigin?

            It can't be done....and no one is offering dna signitures for the Picts, because no one really knows who they were either.

            And i doubt very much that the surname Logan from relatively recent times can be linked to the Laigin of a time before Christ.
            I had read that the Picts farmed. Wasn't farming spread throughout Europe by people from Mesopotamia? Maybe that is where the Picts were from originally? Or maybe Syria?

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            • #21
              From what I have gathereed on the internet the Picts were connected somehow to the Scythians. Supposedly, from my readings, the Scythians conquered lands north of the Black Sea. There they grew grain and traded with the Greeks.

              I have never heard of a a Syrian connection with the Picts.
              I believe the Scythians are thought to be from the Russian Steppes area.
              Who's to say.

              The Scythians were thought to be great warriors..it's no wonder to me that some tribe would want to say they are from that stock.

              One story i read had the Picts in ships asking to land in Ireland, and were told instead, they could settle in the land across the water, naming it Alba.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by M.O'Connor View Post
                From what I have gathereed on the internet the Picts were connected somehow to the Scythians. Supposedly, from my readings, the Scythians conquered lands north of the Black Sea. There they grew grain and traded with the Greeks.

                I have never heard of a a Syrian connection with the Picts.
                I believe the Scythians are thought to be from the Russian Steppes area.
                Who's to say.

                The Scythians were thought to be great warriors..it's no wonder to me that some tribe would want to say they are from that stock.

                One story i read had the Picts in ships asking to land in Ireland, and were told instead, they could settle in the land across the water, naming it Alba.
                I've read many different theories. Some say Scythia others say Iberia some even say that whoever stated Scythia actually meant Scandinavia (I think it was Bede who claimed that they were from Scythia? Haven't looked at this stuff in a while )

                I've read that the people in the Kingdom of Dal nAraidi (not to be confused with Dal Riata) were of Cruithni (same thing as Picts) stock. So I think they did manage to settle somewhat in Ireland... but probably cared more for Scotland then Ireland when they were told about it. I think in that legend also the Picts took Irish women....

                I am interested in how there is so much research on Picts and whichever haplogroup they belonged too.

                Has anyone tried to look at Haplogroup I1 and the Picts??

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                • #23
                  I dont put much stock in the origin myths. We would see the remnants of Scythian culture if it survived in Scotland. In my unprofessional opinion that the Picts were the original inhabitants of Scotland, and probably came to Scotland via Gaul, then pushed north into Alba.
                  Eunson

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                  • #24
                    Dr. Jim Wilson has done extensive research on the northern Isles and was the leading scientist that discovered the blood of the Vikings. From the information that he has shared with me, the Picts look to be L21, but attaching certain haplogroups to specific cultural groups is flawed. We would most certainly see the remnants of the Picts in current Scottish populations and there connections to the Brythonic peoples have been noted. Being that the Scots modal seems to be prevalent in Scotland and is lacking in Northern Ireland, where the Dalriada Scots migrated from....
                    Take care
                    Eunson

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Magnus_Eunson View Post
                      I dont put much stock in the origin myths. We would see the remnants of Scythian culture if it survived in Scotland. In my unprofessional opinion that the Picts were the original inhabitants of Scotland, and probably came to Scotland via Gaul, then pushed north into Alba.
                      Eunson
                      I don't put much stock into them either. But I think they may at some point in time be helpful.

                      I don't generally think of the Picts as Celts...... their artwork and language (on the stones) don't seem very Celtic.

                      ettocuhetts ahehhttann hccvvevv nehhtons
                      this was from the Lunnasting Stone in Shetland. You can tell the name Nechtan is there but the rest looks like gibberish.....

                      I think the Picts could be genetically anything.... R1b, I1, I2b, etc.

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                      • #26
                        I read quite a bit on the subject....the Pictish language is considered a version of Brythonic closely related to Welsh and possibly some earlier forms of a aboriginal language before the the settlements. The ogham scripts on the stones are closely related to the Irish Ogham found throughout the island which suggests an ancient connection. Considering many of the placenames that are in north eastern Scotland they look to be Brythonic as stated by Lloyd and Jenny Laing in "The Picts and Scots". We can obtain important clues from some of the legends.
                        Eunson

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