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  • question re: specific physical genetic traits

    I realize physical genetic traits and standard dna testing aren't considered linked, but I'm hoping someone can enlighten me about physical dna traits. I know, I've sort of asked this before. still trying to understand it, and musing over how it and dna testing, merged together, might work better as a "team" than seperately.
    looking for another note in my genealogy program, I stumbled across an old email from my eldest sibling. in it she states that our maternal grandmother, whom I suspect has a bit more than a drop or two of Romany in her, had odd eyes, one brown and one blue. they were clear, and my sister claims they photo'd as though they were the same color-maybe in black and white, I'm not so sure about color photos. I suspect she got them from her maternal side as they were also light colored eyed. that's the branch that is suspected to have Romany in it. such a pity that we can't find a living male descendant!
    any comments are of interest, though I'm curious to know the present scientific take on odd-eyed individuals.
    my husband has his own familial dna traits which I've mentioned previously in other notes, a 3rd tear duct which a brother and a son have. there are, of course other traits that show up in specific families. I'm of the strong oppinion that familial traits such as these must run parallel with the standard dna testing, in that physical traits pretty much remain within the family unit, so if we were to, say, find an unknown Moore who hasn't been tested who had a third tearduct chances are extremely good that they would dna test almost identical to if not exactly identical to my husband and his brothers and sons. this could also be the case for disease, although some is culturally caused within the family unit, and so is not an actual genetic trait. it depends on the family. we've had female reproductive cancer on both sides of our family, but it has not shown up in the generations since my eldest sibling's birth on my mother's side, and for 3 more generations back on my father's side.

  • #2
    RE physical traits

    A few people have checkerboard skin color. This is due to, apparently, to conflicting dna from either parent. Some areas of the skin are pale and other areas being darker. It was brought up in a biology class I took long ago, and sure enough, since that time I've actually seen it on a few different occasions.

    U5b2b & R1a1a*

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    • #3
      checkerboard coloring

      that may be so, though I haven't heard of it before. but in retrospect, I may have seen it-the shading of the splotches is more subtle than what Michael Jackson has.

      I'm aware of a disease(?) or genetic malfunction that causes this, Michael Jackson is one individual who has it, my husband's white (partly Italian) cousin also has it. the melanin dies in splotches so the person can appear to be a burn victim, or an acid splash victim. eventually all the melanin is gone, and the person is much fairer than they originally were. not albino, that's another gene malfunction, more extreme than the one I'm speaking of, though both are connected to melanin failure.

      there are also chimera, where an individual is their own twin. they started as a twin in the embrio, but never divided beyond that point. there is a documented boy who is literally divided colorwise down the middle, white on one side and black on the other. if I remember correctly his mother was married and had an affair, got pregnant by both men a few days part and had this baby, who I believe has dna from both men. it's extremely rare and there's some discussion of it in JAMA (Journal of American Medical Association). there's also been several shows that discuss chimera on the science channels, which is where I learned of it and where I learned of this boy.

      I've seen blacks who have noticeably lightened or darkened over time-from childhood to adulthood to elderly. this is an over-all darkening or lightening, not splotchy. I don't know the cause of this for the younger blacks. I don't mean the quadroons, but the much darker black people. I've also noticed that very elderly quadroons sometimes turn sallow or even near white, and certain very elderly blacks turn a blue-ish grey in skin color. the elderly's color change is simply melanin failing to reproduce in the skin, but the younger blacks changing from medium to medium dark, that I don't have an answer for. I would believe it is a genetic heritage, though.

      I hope no-one's offended by these comments, I mean no slight to anyone what so ever. I'm the daughter of an anthropologist and have no racial issues. we are all one, all related. unfortunately I am prone to occasionally sticking my foot in my mouth unintentionally, though. if I have done that, I apologise.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by nekocat View Post
        that may be so, though I haven't heard of it before. but in retrospect, I may have seen it-the shading of the splotches is more subtle than what Michael Jackson has.

        I'm aware of a disease(?) or genetic malfunction that causes this, Michael Jackson is one individual who has it, my husband's white (partly Italian) cousin also has it. the melanin dies in splotches so the person can appear to be a burn victim, or an acid splash victim. eventually all the melanin is gone, and the person is much fairer than they originally were. not albino, that's another gene malfunction, more extreme than the one I'm speaking of, though both are connected to melanin failure.

        there are also chimera, where an individual is their own twin. they started as a twin in the embrio, but never divided beyond that point. there is a documented boy who is literally divided colorwise down the middle, white on one side and black on the other. if I remember correctly his mother was married and had an affair, got pregnant by both men a few days part and had this baby, who I believe has dna from both men. it's extremely rare and there's some discussion of it in JAMA (Journal of American Medical Association). there's also been several shows that discuss chimera on the science channels, which is where I learned of it and where I learned of this boy.

        I've seen blacks who have noticeably lightened or darkened over time-from childhood to adulthood to elderly. this is an over-all darkening or lightening, not splotchy. I don't know the cause of this for the younger blacks. I don't mean the quadroons, but the much darker black people. I've also noticed that very elderly quadroons sometimes turn sallow or even near white, and certain very elderly blacks turn a blue-ish grey in skin color. the elderly's color change is simply melanin failing to reproduce in the skin, but the younger blacks changing from medium to medium dark, that I don't have an answer for. I would believe it is a genetic heritage, though.

        I hope no-one's offended by these comments, I mean no slight to anyone what so ever. I'm the daughter of an anthropologist and have no racial issues. we are all one, all related. unfortunately I am prone to occasionally sticking my foot in my mouth unintentionally, though. if I have done that, I apologise.
        I guess what I thought I learned was really more complicated (although I recall it being in print). Although I've seen Blacks with conspicuous two-toned skin color (e.g. in Florida), I was thinking of more subtle contrasting skin color in Whites (white contrasting with off-white). But in the end it is the brain that really counts, ha ha.

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        • #5
          you probably did, PD,

          I wasn't dissing your knowledge. I'm niave in these areas, see and read some interesting things and put it out, not as fact, but just what my experience is, hoping for further enlightenment.
          my husband's cousin is probably like what you had in mind, though I can't be certain about that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by nekocat View Post
            I realize physical genetic traits and standard dna testing aren't considered linked, but I'm hoping someone can enlighten me about physical dna traits. I know, I've sort of asked this before. still trying to understand it, and musing over how it and dna testing, merged together, might work better as a "team" than seperately.
            looking for another note in my genealogy program, I stumbled across an old email from my eldest sibling. in it she states that our maternal grandmother, whom I suspect has a bit more than a drop or two of Romany in her, [b[had odd eyes, one brown and one blue[/b]. they were clear, and my sister claims they photo'd as though they were the same color-maybe in black and white, I'm not so sure about color photos. I suspect she got them from her maternal side as they were also light colored eyed. that's the branch that is suspected to have Romany in it. such a pity that we can't find a living male descendant!
            any comments are of interest, though I'm curious to know the present scientific take on odd-eyed individuals.
            David Bowie, the famous singer/entertainer, has one blue eye and one brown eye.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by nekocat View Post

              there are also chimera, where an individual is their own twin. they started as a twin in the embrio, but never divided beyond that point. there is a documented boy who is literally divided colorwise down the middle, white on one side and black on the other. if I remember correctly his mother was married and had an affair, got pregnant by both men a few days part and had this baby, who I believe has dna from both men. it's extremely rare and there's some discussion of it in JAMA (Journal of American Medical Association). there's also been several shows that discuss chimera on the science channels, which is where I learned of it and where I learned of this boy.
              I don't believe it. Only one sperm can penetrate an egg. You can't have two different ones get into the same egg. Unless there were two eggs, and one man fertilized one egg, and another man fertilized the other, and somehow the the two babies/eggs merged while in the womb, and instead of two births there was only one......

              Please tell me exactly how it was explained in JAMA. Or is it still a mystery?
              I could believe two separately fertilized eggs eventually merging, but not two sperm getting into one egg.
              Maybe both ovaries shot eggs down both fallopian tubes at the same time and that is why there were two eggs (if it was from 2 eggs). I know I once had two full periods one week apart once. Or was it two weeks apart? That was when I was on the macrobiotic diet. It messed up my cycle. That was when I was a teen. My mom was on the diet and she threw out all my food and had only macrobiotic food in the kitchen, so I was stuck eating her macrobiotic food. It was awful.

              So maybe the mother of the chimera baby was on a severe diet at the time?
              Last edited by rainbow; 10 March 2009, 04:10 PM.

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              • #8
                sorry, I didn't take notes

                the show was on one of the science channels, and it focused on genetics, but not standard genetics. these were people who's genes didn't follow the standard role. I've seen an update since the original, and I'm sure they'll run it again when they have more data...or nothing available to show. I don't think it was on PBS, I think it was on the Science Channel. and it was about mid last Spring that it showed. I didn't understand all that was said but what I stated is what I recall from it. we don't get the tv guide so I don't know when or if it will show again.
                I also haven't read the JAMA report, myself. over my head and out of my area of knowledge...
                I don't recall any comment about diet, there may have been.
                I've longed for an archive where one can just go to the program and run it-like choosing music from a jukebox, except you can choose any show that's ever been on and watch it whenever you want to. it's a pity to put something on TV once or twice and then never again.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nekocat View Post
                  the show was on one of the science channels, and it focused on genetics, but not standard genetics. these were people who's genes didn't follow the standard role. I've seen an update since the original, and I'm sure they'll run it again when they have more data...or nothing available to show. I don't think it was on PBS, I think it was on the Science Channel. and it was about mid last Spring that it showed. I didn't understand all that was said but what I stated is what I recall from it. we don't get the tv guide so I don't know when or if it will show again.
                  I also haven't read the JAMA report, myself. over my head and out of my area of knowledge...
                  I don't recall any comment about diet, there may have been.
                  I've longed for an archive where one can just go to the program and run it-like choosing music from a jukebox, except you can choose any show that's ever been on and watch it whenever you want to. it's a pity to put something on TV once or twice and then never again.

                  I think there is something like that, it's called Tivo, but I don't have it. I don't have the science channel (no cable), and I hardly ever watch tv. When I was younger I was glued to the tv set (not literally), when I had one. There is nothing good on anymore, that I know of. When I can, I watch PBS when they have Sherlock Holmes, Miss Marple, etc. Mainly because I like their manners and how they dress. Nothing at all like today.

                  And I've never read a JAMA either. I was just asking because I was curious at the moment. I just thought it was amazing story. It is amazing. I'd like see a picture of the chimera baby. Does it have two ydna haplogroups? Or only one? Etc. I was just musing out loud. I don't expect anyone to tell me any additional info.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You guys are going in the wrong direction.

                    What the OP is talking about is Heterochromia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterochromia ), which is often genetic, not a Chimera-like condition, which is usually not even visually noticable.

                    Kate Bosworth, Mila Kunis and a girl in my HS all had it.

                    Anyway, it's a recessive trait, passed along autosomally, simple as that.

                    But, in terms of the original subject, I do wonder if there's a tendency for certain combined looks to be carried among families, since there are just a number of traits (facial structure, hair color, etc) which keep on resurfacing, even among 6th and 12th cousins.

                    I know it's gonna take a lot more research to prove or disprove, but it all makes me wonder...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jr76x View Post
                      You guys are going in the wrong direction.

                      What the OP is talking about is Heterochromia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterochromia ), which is often genetic, not a Chimera-like condition, which is usually not even visually noticable.

                      Kate Bosworth, Mila Kunis and a girl in my HS all had it.

                      Anyway, it's a recessive trait, passed along autosomally, simple as that.

                      But, in terms of the original subject, I do wonder if there's a tendency for certain combined looks to be carried among families, since there are just a number of traits (facial structure, hair color, etc) which keep on resurfacing, even among 6th and 12th cousins.

                      I know it's gonna take a lot more research to prove or disprove, but it all makes me wonder...

                      Thank you for that. Guess what. I have "Central heterochromia".
                      People say my eyes change color, sometimes looks blue, green, grey, yellow, hazel. I have various colors in my eyes just like in the photo of the central heterochromia. The outer part is blue.

                      So the doctor who wrote down "blue" was right after all. I sometimes put down "hazel" or "green".

                      They were solidly blue until about age 12 or 13. They started going green around that time.
                      Last edited by rainbow; 12 March 2009, 03:14 PM.

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                      • #12
                        thanks, JR,

                        I'm glad you brought that up.
                        I'm sure they said that and I either forgot, merged the two in my head, or both.
                        it is intriguing. mostly in our line each generation blends with the next (or last, which ever way you look at it) depending on which side of the family has the stronger genes at the time. so my mother and her brother and sister look like their mother and her family, and my eldest and middle siblings also look like her family, my number 2 sibling looks like my dad and his family, and my number 4 sibling looks like a mixture of our parents families....but I , the youngest child, look like his maternal great grandmother. go figure. all of us have a mix of our parents eye colors, so we were pretty much blue to start with, then started getting everything from hazel to dark olive green flecks of color in our eyes, with something really light flecked through-out. I have a mostly hazel corona around the pupel, and my eyes waffle between Pacific Ocean blue and Pacific Ocean green. I still say "blue" when I'm asked, but even I don't know!
                        when we understand more about genetic genealogy, this will be easier to unravel, though it does appear to mostly be the luck of the draw.

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