W: How to figure out subclade?

[mothdust9]

I just got my HVR2 results today that resulted in 2 high resolution matches! I checked mitosearch and have 2 exact matches that trace their oldest maternal ancestor to Wilhelmine Christiane Hesser. I'm quite excited.

I've been trying to figure out my subclade, but I'm not sure if I'm correct. Can anyone help me out?
HVR1: 16223T 16292T 16362C 16519C
HVR2: 73G 150T 189G 194T 195C 204C 207A 263G 315.1C

Thank you,
Tiffany

[Jim Honeychuck]

I just got my HVR2 results today that resulted in 2 high resolution matches! I checked mitosearch and have 2 exact matches that trace their oldest maternal ancestor to Wilhelmine Christiane Hesser. I'm quite excited.

I've been trying to figure out my subclade, but I'm not sure if I'm correct. Can anyone help me out?
HVR1: 16223T 16292T 16362C 16519C
HVR2: 73G 150T 189G 194T 195C 204C 207A 263G 315.1C

Thank you,
Tiffany

Congratulations on your progress.

I'm not familiar with your haplogroup, which is W, but there is a lot of information at http://www.thecid.com/w/

From the information there, it would appear you are in subclade W4. Note that those subclades are the result of expensive further testing (full genome). Many of us don't buy that test and just follow the clues. There's also a guide to subclades at that site.

I do not see the pointers to the Middle East or Ashkenazim in your results. Your Mitosearch match appears to be just German.

Regards,
Jim

[mothdust9]

Isn't Hesser a Jewish surname? In looking up info about Hesser and the other families related to Wilhelmine Hesser, they seem to all be Jewish. Am I looking at the wrong family trees? On one genealogy website they list a Hesser being buried in Sinai Jewish cemetary in California and her family line before that seems to be linked to this particular one.

Tiffany

[Jim Honeychuck]

Isn't Hesser a Jewish surname? In looking up info about Hesser and the other families related to Wilhelmine Hesser, they seem to all be Jewish. Am I looking at the wrong family trees? On one genealogy website they list a Hesser being buried in Sinai Jewish cemetary in California and her family line before that seems to be linked to this particular one.

Tiffany

Wilhelmine Christiane could not be a Jewish woman, surely.

But if you have information on her in a family tree, then go with that.

Regards,
Jim

[mothdust9]

It all seems to be documented very carefully here:
http://www.ehrman.net/blacksea/schockbess/schock.htm

When looking up information on Bessarabia, there is info on the Odessa executions listing people with the surnames of Schock, Ehrman, etc. which said they were Jewish civilians. On another forum there was a question of a woman descended from the family (Hesser) who came to the U.S. from Alsace, France with a reply of her record in Sinai cemetary. They could have been German or Russian in nationality while their ethnicity was something else. I have no idea other than what I'm finding on genealogical websites about these families. Just by looking at the name and seeing that beside it, it says Germany, my first assumption was the same as yours.

Tiffany

[Jim Honeychuck]

It all seems to be documented very carefully here:
http://www.ehrman.net/blacksea/schockbess/schock.htm

When looking up information on Bessarabia, there is info on the Odessa executions listing people with the surnames of Schock, Ehrman, etc. which said they were Jewish civilians. On another forum there was a question of a woman descended from the family (Hesser) who came to the U.S. from Alsace, France with a reply of her record in Sinai cemetary. They could have been German or Russian in nationality while their ethnicity was something else. I have no idea other than what I'm finding on genealogical websites about these families. Just by looking at the name and seeing that beside it, it says Germany, my first assumption was the same as yours.

Tiffany

Well, many Jews ended up with German names.

But focus on your exact match. The Germans in Hoffnungstal were Lutherans.

http://www.grhs.org/vr/odessa/hoffnungstal_odessa.htm

Are you anywhere near North Dakota? Looks like that's where Wilhelmine Christiane's descendants, if any, ended up.

Regards,
Jim

[mothdust9]

I'm in North Carolina, but I don't know where my biological mother was from. I had heard a while back that she and her family may have orinally been from California and that she moved back there after giving birth to me, but I can't be sure of that info.

Tiffany

[Jim Honeychuck]

I'm in North Carolina, but I don't know where my biological mother was from. I had heard a while back that she and her family may have orinally been from California and that she moved back there after giving birth to me, but I can't be sure of that info.

Tiffany

Well, I don't know much about Jewish DNA, but it is perhaps the most developed area of genealogical DNA research. So if there's a connection for you, it will turn up.

If you can find her e-mail address, you might ask Ellen Levy Coffman. She knows pretty much everything.

Getting late here in Europe. Good luck in your research.
Jim

[mothdust9]

W4, I feel like a moron Sorry about that Jim. I had been on the Cid page earlier today, but it kept pulling up W1 AND W4 when I used the subclade finder. Now, it's pulling up just W4. Anyway, thank you for your help as always!

Tiffany

[Jim Honeychuck]

You have several off-by-1 matches on www.smgf.org.

Another one from Baden. Another German from a colony in Russia. At least four Swiss. Several others with unknown European origin.

Regards,
Jim

[mothdust9]

Jim, you're super! I really appreciate you checking that for me, perhaps there is no Ashkenazi link after all then? I don't think I had heard of smgf.org before, I'll check it out.

Thanks,
Tiffany

You have several off-by-1 matches on www.smgf.org.

Another one from Baden. Another German from a colony in Russia. At least four Swiss. Several others with unknown European origin.

Regards,
Jim

[mothdust9]

I finally figured out where I got it wrong. I found a different family tree of a Wilhelmine Hesser who was born around 1826 and her family was Jewish. But, the one I was looking for was the one who died in 1826. I got the dates mixed up when I was searching I guess. I'm assuming the Jewish family probably shared those names because they changed their own surnames either to fit in to the area or for safety. So, that's why all that Jewish info kept popping up. You are right, the family line I'm looking for isn't Ashkenazi.

Tiffany

[Jim Honeychuck]

While checking the Germany Project for someone else, I noticed this exact match to you.

http://www.german-dna.net/Germany%20...%20Results.htm

130715 W Margaretha Robard 1810 Holstein 223T, 292T, 362C, 519C 73G, 150T, 189G, 194T, 195C, 204C, 207A, 263G, 315.1C Tanke, Tank, Dickerson

Maybe the project administrator will put you in touch with the contributor.

Regards,
Jim