New Tribes' Populations

[tomcat]

I also wanted to point out that your husband's roster of matches sorts into two groups; Eastern Med/Levant and New World Mestizo. And that the top Syrian match is "supported" by lesser matches from the same region and that the similar is true of the Mestizo. So, there is a measure of internal consistency.

But, again, as Tribes computations take into account the entire 21-marker/42-allele profile, whatever is "Mexican" in your husband's genetics effects the reading of whatever is "Italian" and vice-versa. The only way around that is by separating the two halves of his profile - by running the profile through a phasing program.

[tomcat]

....including Tomcat's, if you wish to take a stab at this.....

Tribes analyses cannot (in my opinion) be taken as defintive for ancestry, especially minor ancestry. The markers are only definitive for identity, the purpose for which they were chosen; the identification of perpetrators, victims, parents and human remains.

But your husband's results are intriguing and could be taken as confirmation of Native American ancestry, if you choose. The Syrian match could just be a fluke (randomly combine Mexican and Italian and you get a combo that looks Syrian) or an indication that one or the other of the parents had an Eastern Mediterannean component in their past.

From what region of Italy came your husband's mother?

[JuanCarlos]

Derinos, thanks for the information on Chubut. That's very interesting. I just explained it to my husband.

Juan, I still think it's funny my DH has any Native American...since it was never a consideration. But they are #200+ down his extended tribes report pages....I don't understand how Tribes determined that he could be more than 1/4. I'm wondering if anyone with known Indian history had any similar low readings. Hmm.

Rainbow, I'm out of town on internet dial-up service. But, I'll check out those digests upon our return.

I truly appreciate everyone's help trying to sort this out.

I have no idea how they arrived at that conclusion. I see he has several Latin American matches, maybe to mestizo populations. I guess based on that, or who knows what else, they described his main affiliation as Mestizo. That implies a not so small amount of NA ancestry, I suppose. But Tribes always states their results are not racial percentages. How they determine someone is one fourth of anything is a mystery to me.

[RegRiv]

Derinos, thanks for the information on Chubut. That's very interesting. I just explained it to my husband.

Juan, I still think it's funny my DH has any Native American...since it was never a consideration. But they are #200+ down his extended tribes report pages....I don't understand how Tribes determined that he could be more than 1/4. I'm wondering if anyone with known Indian history had any similar low readings. Hmm.

Rainbow, I'm out of town on internet dial-up service. But, I'll check out those digests upon our return.

I truly appreciate everyone's help trying to sort this out.

[JuanCarlos]

Thanks for your replies, DFK & Rainbow. Regarding DH's heritage; his mother's genealogy goes back 150-200 years to Catholic Italians living in Italy. She assumes she is 100% Italian. And his Dad can go back over 100 years in Mexico. His Dad believes he is 100% Mexican...with a tiny amount of Mayan.

Regarding my DH's top Syrian match: I intend to read up more on Syria. Since Syria was part of the Roman Empire and was Christian until 636 AD when it was invaded by Arabs. So, it might not be a stretch that my DH has Syrian, vs. Italian, I suppose. (I didn't realize, until now, that St. Luke was originally from Syria. I'd only known about its Arab history.....)

Btw, here are my husband's Native American results. He clearly is not Mayan, as his father supposed:

Native American (Minn. USA) (.15) 8.34
Native American (Minn. USA) (.12) 4.78
Native American (Minn. USA) (.13) 3.31
Yucatan Mayan Mexico (.01) .01

I have no clue whether those #'s truly point to Indian heritage or not, as Lucas suggested. I would appreciate any input....including Tomcat's, if you wish to take a stab at this.....

Thank you!

Regina

I would say that the fact that your husband's Continental match is Mestizo, means he is a mixture of European and NA. In his case, the NA component comes from Mexico, since his father was Mexican. It is also not suprising that he matches those NA tribes in the US, plus the weaker Yucatan Mayan match.

[RegRiv]

Thanks for your replies, DFK & Rainbow. Regarding DH's heritage; his mother's genealogy goes back 150-200 years to Catholic Italians living in Italy. She assumes she is 100% Italian. And his Dad can go back over 100 years in Mexico. His Dad believes he is 100% Mexican...with a tiny amount of Mayan.

Regarding my DH's top Syrian match: I intend to read up more on Syria. Since Syria was part of the Roman Empire and was Christian until 636 AD when it was invaded by Arabs. So, it might not be a stretch that my DH has Syrian, vs. Italian, I suppose. (I didn't realize, until now, that St. Luke was originally from Syria. I'd only known about its Arab history.....)

Btw, here are my husband's Native American results. He clearly is not Mayan, as his father supposed:

Native American (Minn. USA) (.15) 8.34
Native American (Minn. USA) (.12) 4.78
Native American (Minn. USA) (.13) 3.31
Yucatan Mayan Mexico (.01) .01

I have no clue whether those #'s truly point to Indian heritage or not, as Lucas suggested. I would appreciate any input....including Tomcat's, if you wish to take a stab at this.....

Thank you!

Regina

[derinos]

Hi Regina. Your DH does have a match or two to Italy. And Argentina has a lot of Italians. You can tell if a person is Argentinian by how they speak. They speak Spanish with an Italian accent. .......

And in Chubut province they still speak Spanish with a Welsh accent, and speak Welsh at home. They nearly achieved their own State Of Cymry Newydd (New Wales) in the early 19th century but were forestalled by Argentine annexation of their territory from (then) Chile. So you could now have Welsh DNA and be reported as matched in Argentina.

[derinos]

Present political name not always genetic name.

So could that explain matches to Poland?

As pghotlen and others point to, Slav, German, Nordic, people washed to and fro in history, in the lands just south of the Baltic.
Are you from N Poland or Prussia? Depends on what century. In living memory N.Poland contained entire valleys where only German was spoken.

[rainbow]

RegRiv - DNA Tribes has many digests that you can download for free. One digest shows gene flow from South America to North America.

Tomcat - Thank you.

[tomcat]

... Mohican (are they really extinct)...

No. Some are among the Stockbridge Brotherton tribe in Wisconsin and others out west.

[rainbow]

Hi Regina. Your DH does have a match or two to Italy. And Argentina has a lot of Italians. You can tell if a person is Argentinian by how they speak. They speak Spanish with an Italian accent. I also have a top match to Syria, but I don't have any Syrian ancestry. Unless you count the Holy Land bride a Norman ancestor took during the Crusades. Or maybe ancient Phoeoicians that settled somewhere around Gibraltar then up along the coast of Portugal and then to the British Isles? Based on your DHs matches I would agree that he has Native American ancestry too. Lucas is the expert. Forum member tomcat is an expert too. Try to get his opinion.

[DKF]

Hi everyone. I was hoping you could look over my dear hubby's Tribes 21-marker results...and offer an opinion on what this means. My husband is supposed to be 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Mexican, according to known genealogy. It appears to me that my DH is Middle Eastern - and Central/South American? (Btw, Lukas at Tribes said hubby was 1/4 Native American..?..) TIA for your opinion!
Regina

This company official appears to tell just about everyone who whats to hear it that they are between 1/8 and 1/4 Native American - despite even their flawed output showing nothing of the sort - at least to my somewhat trained eye. An important question is, what does the genealogy say. If there is no Native American found in the paper trail then until a record is found, or their is confirmatory evidence from a more robust source (e.g., 23andme), the statement is, in my opinion, entirely hollow.

[RegRiv]

Opinions on Tribes Results

Hi everyone. I was hoping you could look over my dear hubby's Tribes 21-marker results...and offer an opinion on what this means. My husband is supposed to be 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Mexican, according to known genealogy. It appears to me that my DH is Middle Eastern - and Central/South American? (Btw, Lukas at Tribes said hubby was 1/4 Native American..?..) TIA for your opinion!
Regina

High Resolution Native Population Match Results

Syria (0.66) 276.82
Costa Rica (0.65) 186.04
Southwest Andean Region, Colombia (0.62) 130.49
Buenos Aires, Argentina (0.51) 116.66
Chubut, Argentina (0.56) 113.23
Oman (0.58) 111.26
Bogota, Colombia (0.63) 102.84
Hispanic (California, U.S.A.) (0.59) 95.42
El Salvador (0.66) 94.77
Misiones, Argentina (0.48) 91.23
Israel (0.44) 89.99
Hispanic (0.62) 89.19
El Salvador (0.55) 94.77
Lombardia, Italy (0.36) 86.30
Hispanic (Arizona, U.S.A.) (0.46) 84.94
Costa Rica (0.48) 83.85
Costa Rica (0.49) 81.90
Central Andean Region, Colombia (0.6) 80.03
Santa Fe, Argentina (0.5) 75.98
Mestizo (Argentina) (0.44) 75.80

Part C: High Resolution Global Population Match Results

Syria (0.66) 276.82
Costa Rica (0.65) 186.04
Southwest Andean Region, Colombia (0.62) 130.49
Buenos Aires, Argentina (0.51) 116.66
Chubut, Argentina (0.56) 113.23
Oman (0.58) 111.26
Bogota, Colombia (0.63) 102.84
Hispanic (California, U.S.A.) (0.59) 95.42
El Salvador (0.66) 94.77
Misiones, Argentina (0.48) 91.23
Israel (0.44) 89.99
Hispanic (0.62) 89.19
El Salvador (0.55) 94.77
Lombardia, Italy (0.36) 86.30
Hispanic (Arizona, U.S.A.) (0.46) 84.94
Costa Rica (0.48) 83.85
Costa Rica (0.49) 81.90
Central Andean Region, Colombia (0.6) 80.03
Santa Fe, Argentina (0.5) 75.98
Mestizo (Argentina) (0.44) 75.80

Part D: High Resolution World Region Match Results

Mestizo (0.71) 136.61
North African (0.33) 65.06
Levantine (0.43) 61.61
Aegean (0.47) 60.49
Mediterranean (0.28) 35.81
Mesopotamian (0.37) 32.23
Finno -Ugrian (0.22) 13.80
Arabian (0.16) 11.27
Northwest European (0.15) 9.72
Eastern European (0.08) 2.58
North India (0.05) 1.31
Eastern India (0.12) .92
Andean (0.06) .68
South India (0.02) .55
Altaian (0.09) .49
Patagonian (0.02) .44
Australian (0.08) .29
Mexican (0.03) .24
Mayan (0.02) .15
Tibetan (0.03) .14
Central American (0.02) .12
Amazonian (0.01) .03
South Chinese (0) .02
Ojibwa (0) .02
East African (0) .01
Japanese (0.01) .01

[PDHOTLEN]

North German mixing

There must be a lot of confusion with autosomal DNA results when it comes to trying to separate North Germans from West Slavs. For example, Berlin was a Slavic fishing village on the river Spree at it's inception. The Wends, Sorbs and Poles, etc. were there as much as Germans. The differences may be more cultural than genetic. Also, the Swedish army was rampaging all over the area during the religious wars.

[rainbow]

So could that explain matches to Poland?

From what I remember, Maria also has high matches to Poland, but she has lots of British Isles ancestry and no Polish. I think it is from deep ancestry. She does have some German but I don't know if it's from extreme eastern Germany. I have some German too but mine is from the Alsace region. I consider my top 20 match to Switzerland as a stand in for that. I also have a teensy amount of Swiss. I have one fairly recent ancestor from the late 1700s who was from where Germany borders todays Denmark. The name is Danish-German. And I consider my top 20 match to Piemonte (and Sicily) , Italy as indicators of deep ancestry from Roman Britain.