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  • #31
    Originally posted by tomcat View Post
    Tribes is offering a new report on the genetics of the Coastal Silk Routes to complement their last on the Inland Silk Route. Go to Tribes News and Updates section to download a free PDF.
    Just read it. No (or unsubstantial?) Native Americans genes found along the coastal Silk route.
    Native American genes were found in the overland Silk road route in a previous pdf.

    Gene flow between (ancient?) Caucasians and Africans was from the East Africa region (Axium/Ethiopia), through Arabia, etc.

    Gotta sign off now. Bye.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by rainbow View Post
      Just read it. No (or unsubstantial?) Native Americans genes found along the coastal Silk route.
      Native American genes were found in the overland Silk road route in a previous pdf.

      Gene flow between (ancient?) Caucasians and Africans was from the East Africa region (Axium/Ethiopia), through Arabia, etc.

      Gotta sign off now. Bye.
      The Beringio-American DNA, ,(Ha, a new term for NA? , perhaps OK on the current DNA evidence) did not come from the land closely abutting the Pacific coast and Beringia, but from farther West, Central Siberia. The atlas indicates that the overland Silk Route points towards just south of there. Perhaps silk was not being used much there so early, 15,000 ybp, but that DNA was.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by derinos View Post
        The Beringio-American DNA, ,(Ha, a new term for NA? , perhaps OK on the current DNA evidence) did not come from the land closely abutting the Pacific coast and Beringia, but from farther West, Central Siberia. The atlas indicates that the overland Silk Route points towards just south of there. Perhaps silk was not being used much there so early, 15,000 ybp, but that DNA was.
        I wonder what was being traded/produced along the 'road' before silk was invented.

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        • #34
          Just a thought/question.
          What are the chances that the 'silk road', before silk was invented, was being mined for metals to make weapons? Does it have iron ore, or did it (was it depleted)?

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          • #35
            Thank you...

            Rainbow and all, thank you for posting your DNA Tribes results...Any one else want to compare!

            Maria

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            • #36
              Originally posted by rainbow View Post
              I wonder what was being traded/produced along the 'road' before silk was invented.
              Silk Road is just a name for a network of trade routes supporting east-west trade in all types of commodities - a lot of other stuff was moved along those routes in addition to silk.

              And the various segments of the Silk Road likely functioned as local trade corridors into antiquity. The Silk Road, per se, is dated to the 1C BCE, when the Chinese suppressed the activities of nomadic raiders along their end of the route. Hence, they must have already had an appreciation of the economic benefits of the east-west trade.

              The coastal routes supplanted the overland routes in time. Shipping was faster, less dangerous and allowed the bypass of a lot of middle men. Also more reliable as one was more likely to return home with the goods desired rather than settling for what was on hand at the caravanserei.
              Last edited by tomcat; 5 February 2009, 09:39 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by tomcat View Post
                Silk Road is just a name for a network of trade routes supporting east-west trade in all types of commodities - a lot of other stuff was moved along those routes in addition to silk.

                And the various segments of the Silk Road likely functioned as local trade corridors into antiquity. The Silk Road, per se, is dated to the 1C BCE, when the Chinese suppressed the activities of nomadic raiders along their end of the route. Hence, they must have already had an appreciation of the economic benefits of the east-west trade.

                The coastal routes supplanted the overland routes in time. Shipping was faster, less dangerous and allowed the bypass of a lot of middle men. Also more reliable as one was more likely to return home with the goods desired rather than settling for what was on hand at the caravanserei.
                Thank you. I knew that. What I meant was, I wonder what exactly was traded/produced along the land route 15,000 ybp? Before silk. Native American genes were found along the land route (DNA Tribes digest). So I was wondering if they were involoved in trade way back then along what is now known as the 'silk road', but 10,000 to 15,000 ybp, and what was being traded.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by rainbow View Post
                  ... Native American genes were found along the land route (DNA Tribes digest). So I was wondering if they were involoved in trade way back then along what is now known as the 'silk road', but 10,000 to 15,000 ybp, and what was being traded.
                  Dunno. Don't know of any paleolithic archaeology sites in Central Asia. S'pose, if they traded they traded what stone age hunters trade; workable stone, furs, hides, women, and tall tales.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by rainbow View Post
                    Native American genes were found along the land route (DNA Tribes digest). So I was wondering if they were involoved in trade way back then along what is now known as the 'silk road', but 10,000 to 15,000 ybp, and what was being traded.
                    Tribes found echos of what they identify as Native American genetics in present-day populations along the overland 'Silk Road', in the Mesopotamian, Uyghur, Tibetan and Northern Chinese regions (Digest 12/26/08). But those echos were weak compared to what Tribes found in present-day populations of more northerly and westerly Eurasia; Altaian, Finno-Ugrian, and the Russian Sub-Region (Digest 11/28/08). And the Eurasian echos, in turn, were very weak compared to what Tribes found in present-day populations of the Arctic Region spanning Beringia (Digest 10/25/08).

                    This, and other, genetic evidence suggests the prehistoric populations of migrant hunters that were to become Native Americans long ago moved north and east from a 'homeland' around Lake Baikal. That they were (and remain) most closely related to present-day western Siberian populations, and secondarily to present-day populations of Finno-Ugria (migrant hunters that moved north and west to become reindeer-herders), and thirdly to present-day populations of the Altai and Russian Steppes (migrant hunters that remained in region to become nomadic pastoralists).

                    It is certainly possible that the Old World genetic cousins of Native Americans were involved in Silk Road trade in historic times, as they were the first horsemen (Altaian and Russian Sub-Region). But it is not possible to separate the genetic influence of horse-based Silk Road participation from the more recent influence of successive, horse-mounted, 'Mongol' invasions of the west, the east, middle east and south central Asia.
                    Last edited by tomcat; 6 February 2009, 09:06 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rainbow View Post
                      Just a thought/question.
                      What are the chances that the 'silk road', before silk was invented, was being mined for metals to make weapons? Does it have iron ore, or did it (was it depleted)?
                      There are considerable mineral resources in the Altai and Xinjiang Uyghur AR that were doubtless exploited in the past.

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                      • #41
                        Pigs before silk?

                        Some commodities may have been more influential than metals and furs, or flint blades, copper, and amber.
                        The chicken and the domestic pig came from that area we now broadly call Mongolia and China. Patchy midden archeology indicates a gradual spread westward from ca 10,000 ybp. They had reached Britain by 6000 BC.
                        Was there a less romantic "Pig and Chicken Road" before the Silk Road?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by tomcat View Post
                          Dunno. Don't know of any paleolithic archaeology sites in Central Asia. S'pose, if they traded they traded what stone age hunters trade; workable stone, furs, hides, women, and tall tales.
                          And dogs. Native Americans had dogs. Suppose they came through Beringia with dogs. So the Central Asian populations from which Native Americans decend had dogs >15,000ybp.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by tomcat View Post
                            Tribes found echos of what they identify as Native American genetics in present-day populations along the overland 'Silk Road', in the Mesopotamian, Uyghur, Tibetan and Northern Chinese regions (Digest 12/26/08). But those echos were weak compared to what Tribes found in present-day populations of more northerly and westerly Eurasia; Altaian, Finno-Ugrian, and the Russian Sub-Region (Digest 11/28/08). And the Eurasian echos, in turn, were very weak compared to what Tribes found in present-day populations of the Arctic Region spanning Beringia (Digest 10/25/08).

                            This, and other, genetic evidence suggests the prehistoric populations of migrant hunters that were to become Native Americans long ago moved north and east from a 'homeland' around Lake Baikal. That they were (and remain) most closely related to present-day western Siberian populations, and secondarily to present-day populations of Finno-Ugria (migrant hunters that moved north and west to become reindeer-herders), and thirdly to present-day populations of the Altai and Russian Steppes (migrant hunters that remained in region to become nomadic pastoralists).

                            It is certainly possible that the Old World genetic cousins of Native Americans were involved in Silk Road trade in historic times, as they were the first horsemen (Altaian and Russian Sub-Region). But it is not possible to separate the genetic influence of horse-based Silk Road participation from the more recent influence of successive, horse-mounted, 'Mongol' invasions of the west, the east, middle east and south central Asia.
                            Okay. I was thinking horses. My idea is that they traded horses. With or without further proof, that is the idea I'm sticking to.

                            "No one knows where horses originated. Fossils show that during the Ice Age horses lived on every continent except Australia. Great herds wandered throughout North and South America. Then for some unknown reason, horses disappeared from the Western Hemisphere."
                            http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by tomcat View Post
                              And dogs. Native Americans had dogs. Suppose they came through Beringia with dogs. So the Central Asian populations from which Native Americans decend had dogs >15,000ybp.
                              That's good to know. Dogs have a keen sense of smell. The dogs probably hepled guide them along. And maybe birds. Maybe the dogs followed some birds, then man on horseback followed the dogs.

                              Offtopic: My fave are huskies. When I was seven I had a blue-eyed husky. My schoolmates thought he was a wolf.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by derinos View Post
                                Some commodities may have been more influential than metals and furs, or flint blades, copper, and amber.
                                The chicken and the domestic pig came from that area we now broadly call Mongolia and China. Patchy midden archeology indicates a gradual spread westward from ca 10,000 ybp. They had reached Britain by 6000 BC.
                                Was there a less romantic "Pig and Chicken Road" before the Silk Road?

                                I didn't know that. That could one of the many things traded/moved along on the 'silk road' before silk was invented.

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