X chromosome ancestry testing: Selecting the right candidate

[DKF]

New X Chromosome Forum

Hello all fellow X addicts, those for whom "The X Files" means a great new way to explore both deep and recent ancestry. The new forum hosted by World Families is ready to go. Here is some info and a link to the new site:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-01/1232408407

Please join myself and a very diverse group of interested folk entering this brave new world of DNA ancestry testing. You may be entering uncharted territory, but that is part of the fun. I have already reaped substantial rewards with this form of research, and hopefully over the next few months many of you will also be able to say much the same.

[tomcat]

... Autosomal SNPS? that would be from 23andme or a full genome scan? My autosomal are STRS? IS that correct?

Both 23andMe and DeCodeMe are called genome SCANS because they selectively read SNP's across the genome rather than sequencing the entire genome. Both sample Y, X, and Mt but the greatest number of SNP's seq'd come from the 22 autosomal chromosomes.

[Kathleen Carrow]

My mothers Potowomeke ancestry.

17. 1/8192 Dana Cheyenne Vanderveer

Not sure how to figure out Blaines X chart!!

The only way I see to do it is to make a Fan Chart from your own database and write the percentages from his chart on your own fan chart..I am still trying to figure out how to do that..

[Maria_W]

Don't understand the fan chart....

My mothers Potowomeke ancestry.

1. 4/4 Full blood Nemattanon Weroance
+ 4/4 Full blood Spouse's native name missing
2. 4/4 Full blood Japasaw Weroance
+ 4/4 Full blood Paupauwiske
3. 4/4 Full blood Wahangonoche Weroance
+ 4/4 Full blood Spouse's native name missing.
4. 4/4 Full blood Spouses native name missing. Mary (Christian name)
+ Henry Meese
5. 1/2 blood Native name missing. Christian name missing. Last name Meese
+ John William Waugh
6. 1/4 John William Waugh
+ Martha Mottershead
7. 1/8 William Waugh
+ Margaret Tyler
8. 1/16 John Waugh
+ Margaret Mauzy
9. 1/32 John Lewis Waugh
+ Sarah Hall
10. 1/64 Charles Waugh
I think this is where we are white like a ghost and these numbers don't really count for anything !
+ Nancy Kennedy
11. 1/128 Charles Emery Waugh
+ Harriet Hester Emdle McCoy Faulkner
12. 1/256 Edith Mae Waugh
+ Samual Herber Boyer
13. 1/512 Ermil Audreine Boyer
+ Thomas Odell Wilson
14. 1/1024 Audrey Jeanne Wilson
+ Eugene Edward Shook
15. 1/2048 Maria Theresa Shook
+ Randolph Orrin Walters
16. 1/4096 Sheryl Ann Walters 1/4096 Crystal Jennifer Walters
+ David Daune Vanderveer
17. 1/8192 Dana Cheyenne Vanderveer

Not sure how to figure out Blaines X chart!!

[Kathleen Carrow]

In this instance the autosomal portion of a genome scan might be more useful than the X, as a paternal grandfather would not have contributed anything on the X chromosome. You only get a reading on the paternal grandmother and her lines.

With the autosomal SNP's you would have a read on each of the two grandfather's lines - paternal great-grandfather and paternal great-grandmother with the same percentage reads on the maternal lines. If the paternal great-grandparents were ethnically identical and ethnically different from the maternal great-grandparents that might be enough to reach a determination of paternal ancestry.

Of course you are correct I keep forgetting that Dad's father will Not show up in my X haploblock..

Autosomal SNPS? that would be from 23andme or a full genome scan?
My autosomal are STRS? IS that correct?

[DKF]

Count me in for the X files! Couldn't resist!

Maria

Maria, do your NA ancestors appear on Blaine's fan chart and hence are candidates for making an appearance on one of your X chromosomes? This is one of the few instances in genealogy and genetics where zig zagging back and forth between female and male ancestors will be beneficial (reducing the number of crossover events and so bringing you closer to certain ancestors who happen to fall within the "X parameters"). It is essential to remember that a father's father breaks the chain. As a male I did not receive any contribution at all from my father on the X chromosome - only mother (but not her father's father so my Shetland Islands ancestry will not be found on my X despite my mother's surname).

[DKF]

DKF
An important piece of it it seeems ( to me anyway) is a place to display the X haploblock that is easily visual to others..
My X matches have actually posted in e-mails and I have responded to them without actually seeing the match.. too much text in our messages I guess..
Maybe a separate table for the Blocks..and then LATER on a Geographic area where tentatively identified Haploblocks could be placed..
example is :
I seem to have Danish matches or matches with folks who have Danish heritage..and I have not identitfied that myself..except for the unknown Grandfather..
Hope I was clear about that..

All of the blocks I have investigated have been placed in Excel files uploaded to my website as htm. People can see the haploblocks (I have color coded the different ones) and I place the person's X ancestry beside the haploblock. All identical haploblocks are grouped together. This is the only way to see patterns emerge.

There are a number of good ways to chose blocks for study. Among the best is to examine the 23andme raw data from the X in females (who have two copies) for areas where they are homozygous (e.g., CC GG TT etc.) which would mean that their mother and father had identical haploblocks. Kathy J did this to identify her 65 marker block now under active scrutiny. Jim T has developed a program to search the X data in Ben M's 23andme database for matches above 50 markers. In this way he showed that myself and another in the database share exact SNPs over a 10 million base pair block. Hence this block may be informative back to ancient times, not recent times, since the X ancestors of my match are from southern and eastern Europe and mine are primarly from northwestern Europe. Actually we might learn from this that this is a block best avoided since it is likely to be a very ancient one that may well hark back to the few "Out of Africa" ancestors. Other blocks would be better candidates for study to reflect more recent periods in time. We are really just in early infancy here at this point in time - lots of scope for learning new things.

[tomcat]

... I seem to have Danish matches or matches with folks who have Danish heritage..and I have not identitfied that myself..except for the unknown Grandfather...

In this instance the autosomal portion of a genome scan might be more useful than the X, as a paternal grandfather would not have contributed anything on the X chromosome. You only get a reading on the paternal grandmother and her lines.

With the autosomal SNP's you would have a read on each of the two grandfather's lines - paternal great-grandfather and paternal great-grandmother with the same percentage reads on the maternal lines. If the paternal great-grandparents were ethnically identical and ethnically different from the maternal great-grandparents that might be enough to reach a determination of paternal ancestry.

[Kathleen Carrow]

Kathleen:

The organization of the group is now underway. A moderator has been selected and some of the details framed in. We will be welcoming the participation of everyone at whatever level (newbie to expert) - and all aspects of X chromosome research will be included (SNPs, STRs etc.).

Will let everyone know when this thing is ready to rock and roll. Should be a great ride. Yes, this area of study is all very new and so some important discoveries could be made.

DKF
An important piece of it it seeems ( to me anyway) is a place to display the X haploblock that is easily visual to others..
My X matches have actually posted in e-mails and I have responded to them without actually seeing the match.. too much text in our messages I guess..
Maybe a separate table for the Blocks..and then LATER on a Geographic area where tentatively identified Haploblocks could be placed..
example is :
I seem to have Danish matches or matches with folks who have Danish heritage..and I have not identitfied that myself..except for the unknown Grandfather..
Hope I was clear about that..

[PDHOTLEN]

maybe

Although I can't see a need for me to have my X tested, I may just do it to contribute the info to the greater cause. But no hurry.

U5b2 (11653G) & R1a1a*

[Maria_W]

X files...

Count me in for the X files! Couldn't resist!

Maria

[PDHOTLEN]

Thanx for reply

I forgot about the recombination function. So that would mean that, like Tomcat said, my single X is a 50/50 blend of my Austrian line and my American Colonial line. Maybe I'll just skip that X test for now.

U5b2 & R1a1a*

[tomcat]

PDHOTLEN,

If you are a male your single X chromosome came to you from your mother and is a recombined product of the two X chromosomes she possessed. One of her X's came from her father and one from her mother. And so on back into history (by following the links in this thread you can download some PDF's that show the X inheritance patterns). Hence any information to be derived from your single X will refer exclusively to your maternal lines. (To learn what you may about paternal lines you would need to test a sister, your father or other relatives on the paternal side. The PDF's can help you select appropriate candidates for testing).

None of the companies offering X chromosome results offer "interpretations". FTDNA/DNAF offer a matching database where one may compare a handful of X STR's with others who have tested. Both DeCodeMe and 23andMe offer degree of sharing databases in which one's X results are scored against populations for which X results are available.* Both offer the opportunity to share results with other testees.

It is all VERY EXPLORATORY at this stage. The X study group DKF is forming is simply that, a study group.

*DeCodeMe has a comprehensive database of Icelandic DNA. Both companies rely on data collected by the Human Genome Diversity Project (HGDP) and the French Center for the Study of Human Populations (CEPH). And both mine the database of testees for insights. More population studies are likely forthcoming and additional ancestry-informative X SNP's may be discovered.

[PDHOTLEN]

??? RE X testing

I may be interested in having my "X" tested, but have to be convinced that I'll find some useful information out of it. I wouldn't be using to to compare with anyone else in my family. I just would like to see what population it comes from. There would be a 50% chance that it comes from my mysterious Austrian side. The other 50% would be from lines of UK/western EU. So, is it worth the money? Do I receive a clear interpretation with my results?

U5b2 & R1a1a

[Kathleen Carrow]

Kathleen:

The organization of the group is now underway. A moderator has been selected and some of the details framed in. We will be welcoming the participation of everyone at whatever level (newbie to expert) - and all aspects of X chromosome research will be included (SNPs, STRs etc.).

Will let everyone know when this thing is ready to rock and roll. Should be a great ride. Yes, this area of study is all very new and so some important discoveries could be made.

Wonderful! Thank you..can't wait..most of us are midway between Newbie and expert I think