X chromosome ancestry testing: Selecting the right candidate

[Deirwha]

I am all ears also

Oh, the error message tells me I must add 10 characters to my smile. Other than Colchaire and me I was at a loss to fill out this requirement.

[MMaddi]

I don't understand..I have the Block with STRs? or do I have SNPS??
DXS10074 = 8-15
DXS10075 = 16-18
DXS10079 = 16-18

so my blocks are 8-18-18 AND 15-16-16 one form Dad and one from Mom but WHERE are my SNPS?
Is that something I should have?

The SNPs are tested by 23andMe. David and Tomcat were discussing how it might be possible to get more information about ancestors who contributed to their x chromosome by combining SNP testing from 23andMe and STR testing from FTDNA.

[Kathleen Carrow]

The SNPs are tested by 23andMe. David and Tomcat were discussing how it might be possible to get more information about ancestors who contributed to their x chromosome by combining SNP testing from 23andMe and STR testing from FTDNA.

Thanks for the information..did not have a clue
IS 23andme all SNPS?
I guess both together would be very informational but the STRs ( Haploblocks ) could be also if enough test..

I mentioned this earlier but my J2b closest FGS match altho' his family did NOT match the haploblock, they ( his sisters) match my Sister and I on a lot of X markers..
Which Tom Krahn had indicated travel in a block relatively unchanged for maybe 1000 years?

[tomcat]

...IS 23andme all SNPS?
I guess both together would be very informational but the STRs ( Haploblocks ) could be also if enough test...
Which Tom Krahn had indicated travel in a block relatively unchanged for maybe 1000 years?

Yes the genome scanners are all SNP testers. And some the X SNP's they test indicate X blocks that are in linkage disequilibrium (not subject to recombination) and one of those LD blocks covers the same area as the LD X STR's that FTDNA tests.

SNP's are generally assumed to be unique event polymorphims (UEP's) that occurred only once. So, the X SNP's that differentiate Native Americans from Africans, for example, must have accumulated over dozens of millenia. Hence X SNP's are assumed to be very useful in establishing general ancestry to a good degree of certainty.

X STR's, even if in linkage disequilibrium, are free to add or drop repeats. And while the clock rate for such germ line mutations is not established, it is assumed to be much more rapid than SNP mutation. So, when one combines X SNP LD blocks with X STR's within those blocks one ought to be able to get very fine grained detail on ancestry and/or information on more recent ancestry within the frame of general ancestry.

Taking a lesson from Y testing, I don't know if LD X STR's would be enough to establish ancestry absent the SNP frame of reference. But certainly the two in combination would yield much more detailed information and a higher degree of certainty that ancestry-informative STR matches are not just chance.

[Kathleen Carrow]

Check this out

For those of you who do not visit the Rootsweb DNA Genealogy list there is a great post from Jim Turner giving a link to forms that he apparently put together showing percentages of inheritance on X markers..

Kudos to him!

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2009-01/1231607913

[Kathleen Carrow]

For those of you who do not visit the Rootsweb DNA Genealogy list there is a great post from Jim Turner giving a link to forms that he apparently put together showing percentages of inheritance on X markers..

Kudos to him!
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-01/1231607913

Here is a link just to the link that shows all of the forms

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hulseberg/DNA/xinheritance.html

[tomcat]

DKF,

Perhaps you could post here some of the analytical projects one can accomplish with X SNP's. There are options through the labs but what are the options among the genetic genealogical testing community?

Tom

[JuanCarlos]

What I want to know is the following: If I order the X panel from FTDNA, in practical terms, what can I expect to learn? Also, once I receive the results, how do I decipher their meaning? Does FTDNA provide any interpretation, would I have to enter my results some place else in order to get some feedback? I still do not fully comprehend which ancestors I am supposed to have inherited their chromosomes, genes or whatever you call them, from, following the X chromosome ancestry testing. I have seen the graphs, but they still look confusing to me and I really don't like to think hard, that is the reason I come here to get the input of smarter people like Tomcat, DKF etc. etc. To me this whole X chromosome thing looks and reads like a puzzle.

[Kathleen Carrow]

What I want to know is the following: If I order the X panel from FTDNA, in practical terms, what can I expect to learn? Also, once I receive the results, how do I decipher their meaning? Does FTDNA provide any interpretation, would I have to enter my results some place else in order to get some feedback? I still do not fully comprehend which ancestors I am supposed to have inherited their chromosomes, genes or whatever you call them, from, following the X chromosome ancestry testing. I have seen the graphs, but they still look confusing to me and I really don't like to think hard, that is the reason I come here to get the input of smarter people like Tomcat, DKF etc. etc. To me this whole X chromosome thing looks and reads like a puzzle.

If you have already tested here at FTDNA then you can just test the 3 markers needed for the X haploblock that we have been discussing..
they are found in X Panel 2 and you can just order the three on them for $8.68each and some amount of money like $9.50..less than $30 for those 3..

FTDNA does not give any guidance on these markers and had stated that when they began to offer them..maybe someday..
BUT Thomas Krahn who is also at FTDNA and who owns DNA-Fingerprint has a website where you can sign up, put your markers in and "Run" them against other people's markers or block..
This website is interactive and if you match someone you can e-mail them right there..
here is the link to that:

http://www.dna-fingerprint.com/

any other questions you WILL have to ask the REAL "smart people" Like Tomcat and DKF..not me
like using SNPS and STRS together..that I do not understand conceptually

[tomcat]

What I want to know is the following: If I order the X panel from FTDNA, in practical terms, what can I expect to learn? Also, once I receive the results, how do I decipher their meaning? ....

Well, as a male (XY) you know at the start that your X came from your mother and it is a recombined product of the two X's she had. And that the three linked X markers are in linkage disequilibrium, or not subject to recombination, so DXS10074, 75, 79 is one of the two sets of linked markers your mother had. If you test them and post them you might find matches to others that MIGHT give you more information about ancestry. It is pretty simple. But no guarantees. The more folks that test and post the more we all may learn.

[DKF]

DKF,

Perhaps you could post here some of the analytical projects one can accomplish with X SNP's. There are options through the labs but what are the options among the genetic genealogical testing community?

Tom

There is a lot of work going on by genetic genealogists and people are posting their results for analysis at:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/GENEALOGY-DNA/2009-01

and:

http://www.dna-forums.org

It might be a good idea to read some of the earlier posts to get a feel for the type of research being undertaken.

If it all seems very preliminary is is because most of us only "discovered" this area of research late in 2008 and so we are still taking baby steps. Clearly those of us who have tested with decodeme and 23andme are at an advantage since there is gold to be mined from the over half a million SNP markers.

The X STR markers from FTDNA can be linked to a paper that discusses the three markers noted in this thread - the results can be compared to the German samples and a very small number from Asia and Africa. At the moment it would probably be rare to find a "Irish pattern" or an "Ojibway pattern" or motif of allele values. People will need to be patient, dable a bit, compare notes, and decipher what it all may mean.

Alas, even with an exact match it could mean a close relationship within a genealogical time frame, or hark back to the "Out of Africa" event where a small subsample of African diversity squeezed out of the homeland and spread across the world. We really don't know what we are going to find until we start systematically looking.

[Kathleen Carrow]

There is a lot of work going on by genetic genealogists and people are posting their results for analysis at:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/GENEALOGY-DNA/2009-01

and:

http://www.dna-forums.org

We really don't know what we are going to find until we start systematically looking.

We have an earlier much larger thread where we discussed the Szibor papers etc. before we tested our X markers..some of us here did it quite some time ago when they were first offered ..and posted them at DNA-FP

we cannot read the posts at dna-forums that is member only..
what I WOULD like to know is how have the SNP testings at 23andme and deCODEme helped put the XSTRs that we have tested here in a meaningful perspective?
What do you who have done that know that those of us who have done mtDNA FGS, complete or at least 21 marker autosomal, complete groups of X markers and 67 marker Y test plus SNPS for our male ancestors?
And is it worth the $$ ??

I have yet to read anything at the Rootsweb DNA Genealogy site ( Which I read daily) which indicates that anyone had a revelation after doing one of the full genome tests..

Just wondering

[tomcat]

...
what I WOULD like to know is how have the SNP testings at 23andme and deCODEme helped put the XSTRs that we have tested here in a meaningful perspective?...

I don't have a specific answer but, generally, the linked X STR's (DXS10074, 75, 79) OUGHT to definitively characterize the haploblock as defined by the scanner's SNP haploblocks.

In example, say your SNP-defined haploblock that is co-extensive with DSX 10074, 75, 79, reads (on 23 or DeCode) as East Asian. Is that reading an ancient East Asian signal that might be present in Europeans, or is it actually, genealogically, East Asian, or is it genealogically Native American? The STR's embedded withing the SNP block (which are much younger than the SNP's) hold the PROMISE of answering that question.

[tomcat]

I don't have a specific answer but, generally, the linked X STR's (DXS10074, 75, 79) OUGHT to definitively characterize the haploblock as defined by the scanner's SNP haploblocks...

This ought to work in reverse, that the STR-defined haploblock is a predictor of what one might find if SNP'd, but I can imagine situations in which such a conclusion would be wrong or unsupported by SNP evidence.

I think a pretty good indicator of that would be STR haploblock matches on DNAF that covered range of ancestries or ancestries that couldn't possible be genealogically correct. That might indicate that a variety of populations had converged on an identical STR block within differing SNP blocks.

[Maria_W]

Any comments....

Both my mother and father did the DNA Print test a 1 1/2 ago. Then my father passed away Sept 23, 2007 so it won't be possible to do any more testing on him.. In a casual conversation the other day my mother said no more dna for her. So won't be able to tell who's who's....

Just a reminder. My X results are:

Panel 1
DXS10011: 31.2-40
DXS10066: 13-14
DXS10067: 16-18
DXS10068: 18-23
DXS10069: 16-17
DXS10131: 9-9*

Panel 2
DXS10074: 13-15
DXS10075: 17-18
DXS10079: 17-21
DXS10132: 11-11*
DXS6807: 11-15
DXS7132: 13-15
DXS7423: 15-16
DXS8377: 44-46
DXS981: 14.3-15.3
HPRTB: 13-14

Tryed following X conversation on rootsweb and just got more confused
Are there any more x markers out there to test?
Any comments...

Maria