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  • GhostX
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    I did a google search and found a rootsweb post about this, according to the list this woman made, both DYS 456 and cdyA/B are fast markers. Is this significant? The post says the markers are color coded fast or slow on FTDNA< however I see no color coding- was this removed? How much "fast"er is the mutation rate of these "fast" markers.

    Another question - do the markers earlier in the sequence have more weight in terms of matching with another individual than the later markers, i.e if I were to have a mismatch in the second marker (DYS 390) in FTDNA's sequence, but am identical on the rest of the markers, is that the same chance of sharing a recent common ancestor with someone with whom you only have a mismatch on, say, the 25th marker (464d)?
    The markers aren't color-coded at FTDNA, just on the websites for the surname, geographic, and lineage projects.

    CDY a and b are the fastest-mutating Y-DNA markers known (to my knowledge), so a mismatch on either of those markers (or both) isn't especially significant (i.e., it doesn't in itself show that you are especially unrelated to the mismatched person). A perfect match on both of them, however, is potentially very significant, provided that most of the rest of the markers match.

    Here's a table that will show you the relative mutation rates:

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb..../ratestuff.htm

    The position in the results sequence doesn't have any bearing on how fast that marker mutates. You just have to look them up individually, or use the color-coding as a rough guide.

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Hello again. I got a very interesting email yesterday from David Wright, who runs the website for the Irish-Type-III DNA. He pointed me to his site and told me that I was a member of this type, it looks like I differ from their modal by only 1 on CDY-A and B and on DYS-570 (based upon my 37 markers).
    http://www.irishtype3dna.org/MarkerSpread.htm

    Anyway, this explains why I have so many matches, all of these families in this modal are related, Butlers, O'briens, and even McGraths, along with a number of other surnames with whom I have matches..
    http://www.irishtype3dna.org/Surnames.htm


    I have more info to sort through, but looks to be some very interesting stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathleen Carrow
    replied
    [QUOTE=McCray]Hmm interesting. I did a google search and found a rootsweb post about this, according to the list this woman made, both DYS 456 and cdyA/B are fast markers. Is this significant? The post says the markers are color coded fast or slow on FTDNA


    Fast marker are ones that mutate more commonly and sooner..therefore sometimes they do not "count" as mismatches as much..and people who only have those mutational differences are still possibly related..

    I am not sure about the rest of your question but I think that some mismatches can rule you out on relationship or at least move you further away in the generational time.

    Some markers also are significant in determining haplotype and Clades.

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
    Reason I asked is that there are men of that name in Delaware where my folks are in the late 1680s.
    However they seem to be in MA even earlier( 1640s) and are still found in both places.
    Are 456 and CDY b fast markers? I am not sure.
    Hmm interesting. I did a google search and found a rootsweb post about this, according to the list this woman made, both DYS 456 and cdyA/B are fast markers. Is this significant? The post says the markers are color coded fast or slow on FTDNA< however I see no color coding- was this removed? How much "fast"er is the mutation rate of these "fast" markers.

    Another question - do the markers earlier in the sequence have more weight in terms of matching with another individual than the later markers, i.e if I were to have a mismatch in the second marker (DYS 390) in FTDNA's sequence, but am identical on the rest of the markers, is that the same chance of sharing a recent common ancestor with someone with whom you only have a mismatch on, say, the 25th marker (464d)? I hope you understand what I'm saying-a little hard to word.

    Thanks very much

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathleen Carrow
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    Hi there. Sorry for lack of response, I've been preoccupied with 2 snowstorms, Friday and today, here in Mass. Anyway, no I've never encountered Irons, however I just e-mailed my GD2 37 marker match, we only on DYS-456, where he is 15 and I am 14, and CDY b, where I am 37 and he 38. He is also R1b1b2.

    We'll see what I get for a response.
    Reason I asked is that there are men of that name in Delaware where my folks are in the late 1680s.
    However they seem to be in MA even earlier( 1640s) and are still found in both places.
    Are 456 and CDY b fast markers? I am not sure.

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
    Hmmm.. any Irons in any of the records that you have done?

    I would also ask the McCray surname admin. if O'Brien is a related family..
    Hi there. Sorry for lack of response, I've been preoccupied with 2 snowstorms, Friday and today, here in Mass. Anyway, no I've never encountered Irons, however I just e-mailed my GD2 37 marker match, we only on DYS-456, where he is 15 and I am 14, and CDY b, where I am 37 and he 38. He is also R1b1b2.

    We'll see what I get for a response.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathleen Carrow
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    I have 19 25/25 matches, NONE of which are a variant of/anywhere near my surname.

    of the 19...
    3 are O'Brien/Bryan
    3 are Butler
    2 are West

    All of the above people/surnames have (Y37) listed next to their names, and I don't have ANY 37/37 matches.

    My only GD2 37 marker match is an IRONS, with whom I do have an exact 25 marker match.
    Hmmm.. any Irons in any of the records that you have done?

    I would also ask the McCray surname admin. if O'Brien is a related family..

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
    I would say that IF you have a GD of 0 or 1 to someone whose surname is the same or a variant of your it is significant

    Conventional wisdom is that more than 37 markers is needed for a R1b match but my men have 37/37 and we are very comfortable with that..

    Who is your 25/25 match with? Is it a variant to your surname?

    You do need to get to 37 markers I think..
    I have 19 25/25 matches, NONE of which are a variant of/anywhere near my surname.

    of the 19...
    3 are O'Brien/Bryan
    3 are Butler
    2 are West

    All of the above people/surnames have (Y37) listed next to their names, and I don't have ANY 37/37 matches.

    My only GD2 37 marker match is an IRONS, with whom I do have an exact 25 marker match.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathleen Carrow
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    Oh no no, I meant exact as in exact marker matches, not spelling variations .

    Are the chances higher that the McCraws are related to me than the people with higher level/exact matches?
    I would say that IF you have a GD of 0 or 1 to someone whose surname is the same or a variant of your it is significant

    Conventional wisdom is that more than 37 markers is needed for a R1b match but my men have 37/37 and we are very comfortable with that..

    Who is your 25/25 match with? Is it a variant to your surname?

    You do need to get to 37 markers I think..

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathleen Carrow
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    Oh no no, I meant exact as in exact marker matches, not spelling variations .

    Are the chances higher that the McCraws are related to me than the people with higher level/exact matches?
    I would say that IF you have a GD of 0 or 1 to someone whose surname is the same or a variant of your it is significant

    Conventional wisdom is that more than 37 markers is needed for a R1b match but my men have 37/37 and we are very comfortable with that..

    Who is your 25/25 match with? Is it a variant to your surname?

    You do need to get to 37 markers I think..

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
    Chris
    What you have to remember is that when Irish or Scottish men came here their name was spelled for them by "someone"..immigration or an employer and many many folks continued to spell it that way..
    Since the vast majority of my family is Irish I know this to be true..
    My William Faunt immigrated in 1869 from Tipperary..he came with a British Army pension so when his yearly $$ grant came to US it was spelled the English way"Faunt"..which is how he signed it.
    His baptismal and marriage records in Tipperary, as well as most of his family spelled it "Fant". His brother's sons when they emigrated spelled it 3 ways..Fant and Faunt and even Font.
    The family who DNA shows we are related to who are in America in 1708 or before spell it "Fant"..
    Two men who spell it Font also match us exactly and they are NOT from the US.

    So SW Irish McGraws are likely the root from which your Leonard came..
    I would NOT worry about the spelling variations at all..

    My Carrows when they came to America in 1640s were Carew/Carrew and Carrone and it had to do with the Gaelic and it's standardization ( or lack of it)
    by 1730 all were spelling it Carrow and "we" match the others 37/37..
    Carawan and Caroon do not match us at all..
    Oh no no, I meant exact as in exact marker matches, not spelling variations .

    Are the chances higher that the McCraws are related to me than the people with higher level/exact matches?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathleen Carrow
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    Thanks for all of the responses!

    Kathleen, I am a member of the McRae group. I am #138496 McCray, C.D

    It just worries me that I have no EXACT McCray matches in my 25 marker test, closest is GD1 on 25 marker, where 6 of my 47 GD1 matches are McCraws/McGraws
    Chris
    What you have to remember is that when Irish or Scottish men came here their name was spelled for them by "someone"..immigration or an employer and many many folks continued to spell it that way..
    Since the vast majority of my family is Irish I know this to be true..
    My William Faunt immigrated in 1869 from Tipperary..he came with a British Army pension so when his yearly $$ grant came to US it was spelled the English way"Faunt"..which is how he signed it.
    His baptismal and marriage records in Tipperary, as well as most of his family spelled it "Fant". His brother's sons when they emigrated spelled it 3 ways..Fant and Faunt and even Font.
    The family who DNA shows we are related to who are in America in 1708 or before spell it "Fant"..
    Two men who spell it Font also match us exactly and they are NOT from the US.

    So SW Irish McGraws are likely the root from which your Leonard came..
    I would NOT worry about the spelling variations at all..

    My Carrows when they came to America in 1640s were Carew/Carrew and Carrone and it had to do with the Gaelic and it's standardization ( or lack of it)
    by 1730 all were spelling it Carrow and "we" match the others 37/37..
    Carawan and Caroon do not match us at all..

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
    Hi Chris
    I went and read the rest of your posts..which MCCray are you at the group?
    It is very possible that Sadie's child could still be from her family of origin..
    she seems never to have emancipated

    My own unknown Grandfather could very well be a cousin/Uncle of my Grandmother.I have yet not completely proven disproven that, altho' it is not looking likely to me..I was told it was "rumor" in our small town.There IS a name on my Dad's birth certificate but he supposedly never saw it as he was later adopted by his Grandmother.

    also in my years of Social Work I know that a rule of thumb always is "if there is absolutely no information on a child..look to the family"..stranger things than that happen..

    Many of us do DNA for these reasons..looking for our "Own folks"

    Thanks for all of the responses!

    Kathleen, I am a member of the McRae group. I am #138496 McCray, C.D

    I got an email from them yesterday, here it is...
    "Christopher David McCray is in the Irish DNA group. He matches the modal numbers exactly until he comes to GATA H4 where Irish is 12 and he is 11 and at DYS 456 where Irish is 15 and he is 14. His closest relations in the McRae DNA group so far are the SW Irish McCraws. Perhaps in the future he will upgrade to 67 markers to see how close these two groups really are."

    It just worries me that I have no EXACT McCray matches in my 25 marker test, closest is GD1 on 25 marker, where 6 of my 47 GD1 matches are McCraws/McGraws

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathleen Carrow
    replied
    Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
    Hi
    You are part of the existing McRae surname group?
    It looks like the folks at that group have a handle on the Clan's migrations..have you asked them what they think?
    There may be some family mutations that can pull you closer to one of them.

    Hi Chris
    I went and read the rest of your posts..which MCCray are you at the group?
    It is very possible that Sadie's child could still be from her family of origin..
    she seems never to have emancipated

    My own unknown Grandfather could very well be a cousin/Uncle of my Grandmother.I have yet not completely proven disproven that, altho' it is not looking likely to me..I was told it was "rumor" in our small town.There IS a name on my Dad's birth certificate but he supposedly never saw it as he was later adopted by his Grandmother.

    also in my years of Social Work I know that a rule of thumb always is "if there is absolutely no information on a child..look to the family"..stranger things than that happen..

    Many of us do DNA for these reasons..looking for our "Own folks"

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathleen Carrow
    replied
    Many matches and Surname group

    Hi
    You are part of the existing McRae surname group?
    It looks like the folks at that group have a handle on the Clan's migrations..have you asked them what they think?
    There may be some family mutations that can pull you closer to one of them.

    Leave a comment:

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