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  • #31
    Originally posted by McCray
    Nope I'm not absolutely positive. However, here are my reasons to believe that his mother was a McCray...
    a.) Leonard's only living child, with whom I spoke a few weeks ago, said that his mother "lived on Linden Street with her sisters.. one was Nellie...". Sarah "Sadie" McCray did live on Linden Street in Springfield with all of her sisters, and until her 1929 death-her mother. It seems pretty unlikely that she would know all of this information randomly, though I'm not sure from whom she received the info - probably Leonard or her mother, or one of her siblings.

    b.) On Leonard's death record it has nothing under "father" but under mother it says simply "Sarah"

    c.) My grandfather (Leonard's son)'s baby book, in the little family tree area, lists Leonard's mother as Sadie - http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2079/babybooknq9.jpg (I'm not sure where the William McCray came from, if only one of the other 3 children were alive today to tell me more. My grandfather McCray died in 1978.)

    d.) On the 2 censuses on which Leonard is a juvenile, in 1910 and 1920, it lists the birthplace of his father as either Unknown or USA, while they consistently list the mother's birthplace as Massachusetts.
    I'm sure you will eventually figure out the case. Does your IRONs match go past 37 markers? Has he upgraded?

    I am currently trying to figure out where my paternal (McNeill) line came from in Scotland.... I don't have very many tightly related matches....

    Its good to have family still alive to help you out. That living relative that gave the info is probably right. But I suppose there is more to be searched to confirm what really happened.

    Good Luck in your searches .

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by spruithean
      I'm sure you will eventually figure out the case. Does your IRONs match go past 37 markers? Has he upgraded?

      I am currently trying to figure out where my paternal (McNeill) line came from in Scotland.... I don't have very many tightly related matches....

      Its good to have family still alive to help you out. That living relative that gave the info is probably right. But I suppose there is more to be searched to confirm what really happened.

      Good Luck in your searches .
      Thanks!

      Yes, the IRONS match does have a 67 marker test, actually he has I think 69 tested markers based on Y-Search. Unfortunately it looks like the new FTDNA site doesn't show the "(Y67)" next to names anymore . Maybe they'll fix that.

      I am considering upgrading to the 67 marker test with some of my X-mas money .

      We'll see if I can find anything with only the 37 markers first.

      Does anyone know how long it usually takes for them to put the 67 marker results online after ordering the 37-67 upgrade?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by McCray
        Does anyone know how long it usually takes for them to put the 67 marker results online after ordering the 37-67 upgrade?
        I would think probably the same time as 25 markers. Which took roughly the same time as 37 markers (about 6 weeks, but remember they have your sample now so might take less). It might help you in your searches. Might make or brake your match with the IRONs.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by McCray
          ... If he was, in fact, the father, it would make a lot of sense - Leonard's mother didn't want to give her son the name of a criminal, who was "out of the picture" anyway, and gave him her own last name.
          Another possibility is that Leonard was a child of rape, which I may be able to find out with the phone call to the Boston PD.
          Paternity being a prickly matter, there are rules about surnaming children born out of wedlock. Even if the father is known with certainty, a child cannot be given his surname without his acknowledgment of paternity, an acknowledgment that entails fatherly responsibilities such as child-support. In those instances where the father could not be identified with certainty, 'Unknown' must suffice. Absent marriage or an acknowledment of paternity the child is given the mother's surname as she is incontrovertibly, by evidence of having given birth, the mother of the child (pre in-vitro).

          (My maternal brick wall is posted with a birth certificate naming both parents but according the child the surname of the mother).

          Comment


          • #35
            McCrea birth record

            Don't want to get to far off DNA here, but I was able to find the birth record on the New England Historic Genealogical Society site. (I have a subscription). It was indexed as McCrea and there is no first name, but the mother is Sarah McCrea and her place of birth is Springfield. You have the correct date of birth. Birth was in New England Hospital. Father's name is "unknown" as is his place of birth. The birth was listed with 2 others also with no father listed at the same hospital. Volume 553, p 155 - Vital Records of Boston 1905.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by diananel
              Don't want to get to far off DNA here, but I was able to find the birth record on the New England Historic Genealogical Society site. (I have a subscription). It was indexed as McCrea and there is no first name, but the mother is Sarah McCrea and her place of birth is Springfield. You have the correct date of birth. Birth was in New England Hospital. Father's name is "unknown" as is his place of birth. The birth was listed with 2 others also with no father listed at the same hospital. Volume 553, p 155 - Vital Records of Boston 1905.
              Oh my!! Could you send me a copy of the record/listing?

              My e-mail address is [email protected]

              Thanks so much!
              Chris

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              • #37
                copies

                Originally posted by McCray
                Oh my!! Could you send me a copy of the record/listing?

                My e-mail address is [email protected]

                Thanks so much!
                Chris
                Hi Chris,
                I did send you images of the pages. Can you let me know if you received them. I have a strange email that sometimes ends up in the spam folder.
                Diana

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by McCray View Post
                  c.) My grandfather (Leonard's son)'s baby book, in the little family tree area, lists Leonard's mother as Sadie - http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2079/babybooknq9.jpg (I'm not sure where the William McCray came from, if only one of the other 3 children were alive today to tell me more. My grandfather McCray died in 1978.)
                  After looking at that picture. I noticed something. This book is the tree of your McCray grandfather. I might be wrong. Possibly not understanding the picture but it appears that William McCray and Sarah "Sadie" McCray are the parents of Leonard McCray.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by diananel View Post
                    Hi Chris,
                    I did send you images of the pages. Can you let me know if you received them. I have a strange email that sometimes ends up in the spam folder.
                    Diana
                    Sorry for the amount of time to respond, yes I did get the images, thanks!

                    Originally posted by spruithean View Post
                    After looking at that picture. I noticed something. This book is the tree of your McCray grandfather. I might be wrong. Possibly not understanding the picture but it appears that William McCray and Sarah "Sadie" McCray are the parents of Leonard McCray.
                    This is the book of my grandfather, Douglas, the left side his mother the right his father Leonard (for whom I've been searching for his father). Yes, I think it's just the way the tree was written (it was either Leonard or his wife Eva Martin that wrote it). They didn't write the womens' maiden names: i.e. the martins on the left side are ALL "Martin", no maiden names, the same for the right side. I have no idea where the William came from. I suppose it is possible that Leonard's parents were cousins or something.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by McCray View Post
                      Sorry for the amount of time to respond, yes I did get the images, thanks!



                      This is the book of my grandfather, Douglas, the left side his mother the right his father Leonard (for whom I've been searching for his father). Yes, I think it's just the way the tree was written (it was either Leonard or his wife Eva Martin that wrote it). They didn't write the womens' maiden names: i.e. the martins on the left side are ALL "Martin", no maiden names, the same for the right side. I have no idea where the William came from. I suppose it is possible that Leonard's parents were cousins or something.
                      Might it be that the line is Douglas McCray s/o Leonard McCray s/o William McCray?

                      Since its the tree of you grandfather Douglas then its his tree, and wouldn't William McCray listed be his grandfather (Leonard's father?).


                      Perhaps they did the same not giving the maiden name to the McCray side. Not giving Sarah "Sadie" her maiden name. All though you had said that on records she is Sarah "Sadie" McCray.

                      Also what about Leonard being born out of wedlock???

                      Hope you can figure this stuff out.
                      Last edited by spruithean; 14 January 2009, 06:54 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by spruithean View Post
                        Might it be that the line is Douglas McCray s/o Leonard McCray s/o William McCray?

                        Since its the tree of you grandfather Douglas then its his tree, and wouldn't William McCray listed be his grandfather (Leonard's father?).


                        Perhaps they did the same not giving the maiden name to the McCray side. Not giving Sarah "Sadie" her maiden name. All though you had said that on records she is Sarah "Sadie" McCray.

                        Also what about Leonard being born out of wedlock???

                        Hope you can figure this stuff out.
                        Based on all of the information I found, it looks like it was Sadie/Sarah that was Leonard's mother. Her maiden name was McCray, she was never married, and lived with her brothers/sisters her whole life. She is listed as Sarah on her birth and death records, but Sadie on the censuses and Sadie or Sarah in the city directories.

                        Wedlock looks like a good possibility, on the birth record for Leonard it says FATHER: Unknown MOTHER: Sarah McCrea.

                        I'm not sure where the William in the baby book came from, it is in the place for Leonard's father.

                        I also just found that Sadie's sister Minnie (Mary) McCray had an illegitimate child, born in Springfield on 15 Sept 1885. No father listed, the child was named William McCray.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hmm. A lot of the time people born out of wedlock take on their mothers name.

                          For example In my family research I have found the daughter of one of my ancestors sisters carrying the McNeill surname but her father wasn't a McNeill obviously. We suspect we know who her father is. Just we can't prove it.

                          What other surnames do you match?? and how close?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by spruithean View Post
                            Hmm. A lot of the time people born out of wedlock take on their mothers name.

                            For example In my family research I have found the daughter of one of my ancestors sisters carrying the McNeill surname but her father wasn't a McNeill obviously. We suspect we know who her father is. Just we can't prove it.

                            What other surnames do you match?? and how close?
                            I match the major Irish Type III surnames, especially O'Brien, at the 25 marker level (exact). Others include Butler (exact), and my closest 37-Marker match - GD 2, Irons.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by McCray View Post
                              I match the major Irish Type III surnames, especially O'Brien, at the 25 marker level (exact). Others include Butler (exact), and my closest 37-Marker match - GD 2, Irons.
                              Irons/Hirons is who I might suspect..do any of them have 67 markers?Did I ask that before?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by McCray View Post
                                I match the major Irish Type III surnames, especially O'Brien, at the 25 marker level (exact). Others include Butler (exact), and my closest 37-Marker match - GD 2, Irons.
                                Well you could say that your paternal line is from Ireland...

                                Not sure if I I've asked this before. But what families are living near Sarah "Sadie" McCray (McCrea) at the time of Leonard's birth?

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