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  • spruithean
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray View Post
    c.) My grandfather (Leonard's son)'s baby book, in the little family tree area, lists Leonard's mother as Sadie - http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2079/babybooknq9.jpg (I'm not sure where the William McCray came from, if only one of the other 3 children were alive today to tell me more. My grandfather McCray died in 1978.)
    After looking at that picture. I noticed something. This book is the tree of your McCray grandfather. I might be wrong. Possibly not understanding the picture but it appears that William McCray and Sarah "Sadie" McCray are the parents of Leonard McCray.

    Leave a comment:


  • diananel
    Guest replied
    copies

    Originally posted by McCray
    Oh my!! Could you send me a copy of the record/listing?

    My e-mail address is [email protected]

    Thanks so much!
    Chris
    Hi Chris,
    I did send you images of the pages. Can you let me know if you received them. I have a strange email that sometimes ends up in the spam folder.
    Diana

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by diananel
    Don't want to get to far off DNA here, but I was able to find the birth record on the New England Historic Genealogical Society site. (I have a subscription). It was indexed as McCrea and there is no first name, but the mother is Sarah McCrea and her place of birth is Springfield. You have the correct date of birth. Birth was in New England Hospital. Father's name is "unknown" as is his place of birth. The birth was listed with 2 others also with no father listed at the same hospital. Volume 553, p 155 - Vital Records of Boston 1905.
    Oh my!! Could you send me a copy of the record/listing?

    My e-mail address is [email protected]

    Thanks so much!
    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • diananel
    Guest replied
    McCrea birth record

    Don't want to get to far off DNA here, but I was able to find the birth record on the New England Historic Genealogical Society site. (I have a subscription). It was indexed as McCrea and there is no first name, but the mother is Sarah McCrea and her place of birth is Springfield. You have the correct date of birth. Birth was in New England Hospital. Father's name is "unknown" as is his place of birth. The birth was listed with 2 others also with no father listed at the same hospital. Volume 553, p 155 - Vital Records of Boston 1905.

    Leave a comment:


  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    ... If he was, in fact, the father, it would make a lot of sense - Leonard's mother didn't want to give her son the name of a criminal, who was "out of the picture" anyway, and gave him her own last name.
    Another possibility is that Leonard was a child of rape, which I may be able to find out with the phone call to the Boston PD.
    Paternity being a prickly matter, there are rules about surnaming children born out of wedlock. Even if the father is known with certainty, a child cannot be given his surname without his acknowledgment of paternity, an acknowledgment that entails fatherly responsibilities such as child-support. In those instances where the father could not be identified with certainty, 'Unknown' must suffice. Absent marriage or an acknowledment of paternity the child is given the mother's surname as she is incontrovertibly, by evidence of having given birth, the mother of the child (pre in-vitro).

    (My maternal brick wall is posted with a birth certificate naming both parents but according the child the surname of the mother).

    Leave a comment:


  • spruithean
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    Does anyone know how long it usually takes for them to put the 67 marker results online after ordering the 37-67 upgrade?
    I would think probably the same time as 25 markers. Which took roughly the same time as 37 markers (about 6 weeks, but remember they have your sample now so might take less). It might help you in your searches. Might make or brake your match with the IRONs.

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by spruithean
    I'm sure you will eventually figure out the case. Does your IRONs match go past 37 markers? Has he upgraded?

    I am currently trying to figure out where my paternal (McNeill) line came from in Scotland.... I don't have very many tightly related matches....

    Its good to have family still alive to help you out. That living relative that gave the info is probably right. But I suppose there is more to be searched to confirm what really happened.

    Good Luck in your searches .
    Thanks!

    Yes, the IRONS match does have a 67 marker test, actually he has I think 69 tested markers based on Y-Search. Unfortunately it looks like the new FTDNA site doesn't show the "(Y67)" next to names anymore . Maybe they'll fix that.

    I am considering upgrading to the 67 marker test with some of my X-mas money .

    We'll see if I can find anything with only the 37 markers first.

    Does anyone know how long it usually takes for them to put the 67 marker results online after ordering the 37-67 upgrade?

    Leave a comment:


  • spruithean
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    Nope I'm not absolutely positive. However, here are my reasons to believe that his mother was a McCray...
    a.) Leonard's only living child, with whom I spoke a few weeks ago, said that his mother "lived on Linden Street with her sisters.. one was Nellie...". Sarah "Sadie" McCray did live on Linden Street in Springfield with all of her sisters, and until her 1929 death-her mother. It seems pretty unlikely that she would know all of this information randomly, though I'm not sure from whom she received the info - probably Leonard or her mother, or one of her siblings.

    b.) On Leonard's death record it has nothing under "father" but under mother it says simply "Sarah"

    c.) My grandfather (Leonard's son)'s baby book, in the little family tree area, lists Leonard's mother as Sadie - http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2079/babybooknq9.jpg (I'm not sure where the William McCray came from, if only one of the other 3 children were alive today to tell me more. My grandfather McCray died in 1978.)

    d.) On the 2 censuses on which Leonard is a juvenile, in 1910 and 1920, it lists the birthplace of his father as either Unknown or USA, while they consistently list the mother's birthplace as Massachusetts.
    I'm sure you will eventually figure out the case. Does your IRONs match go past 37 markers? Has he upgraded?

    I am currently trying to figure out where my paternal (McNeill) line came from in Scotland.... I don't have very many tightly related matches....

    Its good to have family still alive to help you out. That living relative that gave the info is probably right. But I suppose there is more to be searched to confirm what really happened.

    Good Luck in your searches .

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by spruithean
    There are so many possibilities.... are you absolutely positive that Leonard's fathers surname wasn't McCray? I hope you can figure out the answers to your ancestry on the McCray line .
    Nope I'm not absolutely positive. However, here are my reasons to believe that his mother was a McCray...
    a.) Leonard's only living child, with whom I spoke a few weeks ago, said that his mother "lived on Linden Street with her sisters.. one was Nellie...". Sarah "Sadie" McCray did live on Linden Street in Springfield with all of her sisters, and until her 1929 death-her mother. It seems pretty unlikely that she would know all of this information randomly, though I'm not sure from whom she received the info - probably Leonard or her mother, or one of her siblings.

    b.) On Leonard's death record it has nothing under "father" but under mother it says simply "Sarah"

    c.) My grandfather (Leonard's son)'s baby book, in the little family tree area, lists Leonard's mother as Sadie - http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2079/babybooknq9.jpg (I'm not sure where the William McCray came from, if only one of the other 3 children were alive today to tell me more. My grandfather McCray died in 1978.)

    d.) On the 2 censuses on which Leonard is a juvenile, in 1910 and 1920, it lists the birthplace of his father as either Unknown or USA, while they consistently list the mother's birthplace as Massachusetts.

    So, you can see with all of those SADIEs and SARAHs on these documents, it seems to add up. Also, Sarah/Sadie and their McCrays were really the only McCrays in Springfield at the time of Leonard's birth in 1905.

    Thanks for the support, I'll certainly need it!

    Leave a comment:


  • spruithean
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    Perhaps a breakthrough?...
    My closest 37 marker match, the GD 2 is one with the surname IRONS. We only differ by 1 each on DYS-456 and CDYb.

    My great grandfather Leonard, whose father I am looking for, in his obituary states Roxbury,MA as a birthplace (this is now, and was at the time of his birth, a section of Boston).

    Leonard McCray (the surname he goes by, but appears to be his mother's surname) was born according to the SSDI and his cemetery burial record on August 21, 1905.

    In the 1904 Boston Directory, there are a few IRONS living in "Rox" http://content.ancestry.com/browse/v...&ln=irons&st=g

    Two of them live in the same house, Edward W. and James F. Per the 1900 census, James is the father, Edward his son. They were both born in Scotland, Edward in 1880.

    On the 1910 Census however, Edward is an inmate at the Massachusetts Reformatory in Concord. He is listed as "single" on both the 1900 and 1910 censuses. By 1920, he had moved to Michigan and was married.

    Tomorrow I am going to contact the Boston Police Department Records dept. and see if they have a record for Edward.

    If he was, in fact, the father, it would make a lot of sense - Leonard's mother didn't want to give her son the name of a criminal, who was "out of the picture" anyway, and gave him her own last name.
    Another possibility is that Leonard was a child of rape, which I may be able to find out with the phone call to the Boston PD.
    There are so many possibilities.... are you absolutely positive that Leonard's fathers surname wasn't McCray? I hope you can figure out the answers to your ancestry on the McCray line .

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Perhaps a breakthrough?...
    My closest 37 marker match, the GD 2 is one with the surname IRONS. We only differ by 1 each on DYS-456 and CDYb.

    My great grandfather Leonard, whose father I am looking for, in his obituary states Roxbury,MA as a birthplace (this is now, and was at the time of his birth, a section of Boston).

    Leonard McCray (the surname he goes by, but appears to be his mother's surname) was born according to the SSDI and his cemetery burial record on August 21, 1905.

    In the 1904 Boston Directory, there are a few IRONS living in "Rox" http://content.ancestry.com/browse/v...&ln=irons&st=g

    Two of them live in the same house, Edward W. and James F. Per the 1900 census, James is the father, Edward his son. They were both born in Scotland, Edward in 1880.

    On the 1910 Census however, Edward is an inmate at the Massachusetts Reformatory in Concord. He is listed as "single" on both the 1900 and 1910 censuses. By 1920, he had moved to Michigan and was married.

    Tomorrow I am going to contact the Boston Police Department Records dept. and see if they have a record for Edward.

    If he was, in fact, the father, it would make a lot of sense - Leonard's mother didn't want to give her son the name of a criminal, who was "out of the picture" anyway, and gave him her own last name.
    Another possibility is that Leonard was a child of rape, which I may be able to find out with the phone call to the Boston PD.

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by Clochaire
    I have heard that there is an oral tradition in Thomond that Irons, and its variant Kenirons, are "corrupted" English phonetic renderings of the Irish Mac an Airchinnigh. That name is better known in English as MacNerney, which is an old Dail gCais name.

    But than again I think that the MacCraith poets to the O'Briens are also an old Dail gCais family.

    So convergence among these closely related surnames may not be out of the question.

    Sean/Jack
    Yup, David Wright's site http://www.irishtype3dna.org/Surnames.htm talks about the poets/relation.

    If only my great grandfather's father was Polish or something, I could at least cut out the possibility of him being a McCray! I just had to match with a common group

    Leave a comment:


  • Clochaire
    replied
    Irons/ Kenirons

    Originally posted by McCray
    Yes, this is why I am going back and forth with the upgrading idea.
    I don't actually have any exact 37 marker matches, only GD-2, 3, and 4. My 1 GD 2 match has the Y-67 test, as do 7 of the 9 GD 3 and 4 matches.

    With the GD2 37 marker match, surname Irons, our 1-step mismatches are on DYS-456 and CDY-b.

    An upgrade could certainly further prove or disprove relation, just not sure if it's worth it.
    I have heard that there is an oral tradition in Thomond that Irons, and its variant Kenirons, are "corrupted" English phonetic renderings of the Irish Mac an Airchinnigh. That name is better known in English as MacNerney, which is an old Dail gCais name.

    But than again I think that the MacCraith poets to the O'Briens are also an old Dail gCais family.

    So convergence among these closely related surnames may not be out of the question.

    Sean/Jack

    Leave a comment:


  • McCray
    replied
    Originally posted by GhostX
    DYS570 is another fast-moving marker, so it's not surprising that you differ from the modal on that marker.

    If you have a ton of matches at the 37-marker level, then I would definitely upgrade to 67 markers if I were you. That will significantly narrow down your list. Some of your 37-marker matches (mainly the ones at the higher genetic distance numbers) may turn out to not be matches at all... but you'll only be able to figure that out for those people also tested at the 67-marker level (i.e., if they have "(Y67)" listed after their names in your Y-DNA Matches list).
    Yes, this is why I am going back and forth with the upgrading idea.
    I don't actually have any exact 37 marker matches, only GD-2, 3, and 4. My 1 GD 2 match has the Y-67 test, as do 7 of the 9 GD 3 and 4 matches.

    With the GD2 37 marker match, surname Irons, our 1-step mismatches are on DYS-456 and CDY-b.

    An upgrade could certainly further prove or disprove relation, just not sure if it's worth it.

    Leave a comment:


  • GhostX
    replied
    Originally posted by McCray
    Hello again. I got a very interesting email yesterday from David Wright, who runs the website for the Irish-Type-III DNA. He pointed me to his site and told me that I was a member of this type, it looks like I differ from their modal by only 1 on CDY-A and B and on DYS-570 (based upon my 37 markers).
    http://www.irishtype3dna.org/MarkerSpread.htm

    Anyway, this explains why I have so many matches, all of these families in this modal are related, Butlers, O'briens, and even McGraths, along with a number of other surnames with whom I have matches..
    http://www.irishtype3dna.org/Surnames.htm
    DYS570 is another fast-moving marker, so it's not surprising that you differ from the modal on that marker.

    If you have a ton of matches at the 37-marker level, then I would definitely upgrade to 67 markers if I were you. That will significantly narrow down your list. Some of your 37-marker matches (mainly the ones at the higher genetic distance numbers) may turn out to not be matches at all... but you'll only be able to figure that out for those people also tested at the 67-marker level (i.e., if they have "(Y67)" listed after their names in your Y-DNA Matches list).

    Leave a comment:

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