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  • Results Are In, MANY Matches?

    Hi everyone. I had a thread previously introducing myself, and my results were put online today. I did the 37 marker test. My surname is McCray, however it looks as though my paternal great grandfather's father may not have been a McCray, though I have no idea what his name was.

    I am a member of the R1b1b2 haplogroup.

    My allele results (in FTDNA order)...
    13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 17 8 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 13 13 15 17 11 11 19 23 14 15 18 18 37 37 12 12
    ......
    I have a total of 706 12 marker matches, 96 25 marker matches, and 10 37 marker matches.

    Of those, 19 of the 25 marker matches are exact. I don't have any exact on the 37 marker level, only one genetic distance of 2.

    Is it common to have so many matches?

    Anyway, I'll talk about my 25 marker exact matches.
    I have NO McCrays or any variation of the name that are an exact 25 marker match. 3 of the 19 exact matches are Bryan/O'Brien, 3 are Butler.
    There are lots of distance-1 McCraws/McGraws, but also lots of O'Briens/variants.

    Also, my SMGF results show, of the top 10 matches (there are no exact on there), 8 are O'Briens/Bryan, etc.

    I'm not sure where to go from here. Does anyone have any suggestions?

  • #2
    Just double checking

    Did you take the deep clade test? If not that is the next place to go in my view.

    Congratulations on the matches. I have not had an exact since 12. My closest at 37 is 3 gd, 2 gd at 25. You have a lot of material to explore and with which to work.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Deirwha
      Did you take the deep clade test? If not that is the next place to go in my view.

      Congratulations on the matches. I have not had an exact since 12. My closest at 37 is 3 gd, 2 gd at 25. You have a lot of material to explore and with which to work.
      No I haven't, where can I find the ordering info/pricing on this test, and how exactly do you think it could help me?

      Thanks very much,
      Chris

      Comment


      • #4
        Deep Clade

        There are a couple places on your FT DNA page that will lead you there. I went to Test and Upgrades and surveyed the choices until I saw it. I am not sure of this because I did mine before the Tree came out, but I think the Tree or your Recent Ancestral Origin page has a little box marked upgrades you can click. I have been out of Y upgrades since before I knew about this feature so never used it. I just went direct to the order sheet. Look along the left hand side at the list of pages that serves a table of contents and link to the page.

        As to what you would get out of it, the deep clade tests "SNP's" and will provide 1) further more recent in origin information about the group of people with whom you share more recent ancestry and 2) probably a group of such people with whom to share information. Because of a number of factors that might just confuse you now to list, people who share with you these SNP's are more likely to share a recent recent ancestor with you than people who might appear closer to you because of their STR match (that's your 37 marker matches).

        With your SNP configuration and group you often get a very helpful administrator who helps you understand this brave new world and apply it practically to sorting out the genealogical implications of all this. As a result of the work of the administrator for my group I am on the verge of connecting the dots with as many as 5 different surname families within a time frame of the past 700 years. Also, you may find that some in the group have paper trails that explain who they are in relation to who other people are dating back to early surname time or before. One of the challenges I have found in my little group is that undoubtedly because of the self selection factor in deciding to purchase these tests, there are relatively few people, less than 50, in my group and no surnames in common with me. It is in general a problem in my research that no one of my surname is as close to me. That does not mean much of anything except it would in the reverse if there was someone of my surname with a close match. The relative recency of testing and the self-selection process through purchase means for some of us "closer relatives" may not have tested.

        Which brings me to another thing you can do- get relatives to test and also do the deep clade.

        Hope this helps. Good luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          by trying to keep it simple

          I let a confusion creep in. If your interest is in genealogical matches and you have a ton of matches a 67 marker exam might well be the best step to sorting out those matches. In other words, matches will fall off. However, if you like me have no real matches beyond the 25 marker level, or your 37 marker matches are already taking you into a genetic distance range that raises ambiguity as to whether they are matches or the consequence of something called genetic conversion, the deep clade test helps you sort it out. You can have a 6 GD STR match on 67 markers who is not as close to you in ancestral origin as an 8 GD STR match who is a member of your same deep clade test. So, I have seen others asking your question advised to take the 67 marker test next and if they have money the deep clade. I advise the reverse because for me the SNP deep clade test provided me with a wealth of information I was not going to get. My best 37 gd match was 3, followed by the more ambiguous 6. I have no 67 marker matches at any gd level. So, for me coming at the question from the vantage point of the deep clade test was very helpful.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by McCray
            No I haven't, where can I find the ordering info/pricing on this test, and how exactly do you think it could help me?

            Thanks very much,
            Chris

            If you click on Tests and Upgrades and click on Advanced Orders. Scroll down the page and you should see all available tests.At the bottom of the page you will see Additional SNP Information.Click on it and there is more info on the SNPs.If you enter your first 12 markers at ysearch and check out your matches, you may get an idea what clade you belong to and save yourself some money. Good luck.

            Comment


            • #7
              McCray,

              That's fantastic that you have 19 25/25 matches! I don't have a single perfect match at any testing level (I've tested over 67 markers).

              I completely agree with Deirwha that you should do the deep clade test and the 67-marker upgrade. As for the priority order, that's partly a matter of what's more important to you--identifying surname relatives, or examining your "deep" ancestry (thousands of years ago). A 67-marker upgrade is more valuable for the former purpose, though a deep-clade test will add an important layer of verification. If I were you, I would definitely do both.

              In your 25-marker test results, do any of them have (Y67) listed after their names in your list of matches? If so, that means that those people tested at the 67-marker level, and it would be very helpful for you to upgrade to 67 markers to compare against them. Even if some of your 25-marker matches drop off your list at the 37-marker level, it's possible that they might reappear at the 67-marker level. This happens all the time.

              If none of your 25 or 37 marker matches have (Y67) after their names, then upgrading to 67 markers will probably not help you to narrow down your list of existing matches at FTDNA, but it will certainly be helpful to you in the future as new matches appear (which they will--FTDNA's database is increasing very rapidly).

              You should also transfer your results (not just the first 12 of them as Oriel suggested, but all of them) over to Ysearch (there's a link to do this automatically on your results page), as Ysearch includes a lot of people who have tested at labs other than FTDNA.

              Congratulations on your initial results!

              Comment


              • #8
                Where to go from here

                Originally posted by McCray
                I have a total of 706 12 marker matches, 96 25 marker matches, and 10 37 marker matches.

                Of those, 19 of the 25 marker matches are exact. I don't have any exact on the 37 marker level, only one genetic distance of 2.

                Is it common to have so many matches?
                To answer your last question first, there is nothing unusual about having that many matches.

                Now, forget about your 12 marker matches and look at your 25 marker exact matches and those that are a genetic distance of 1. Looking at those matches how many of them have a (37) following their name? If they have a (37) following their name they have taken a 37 marker test also and you can forget about them from the 25 marker list.

                Make a list of the names of those left in your revised 25 marker, that is the ones who don't have a (37) after their name and are either an exact match or a genetic distance of 1.

                To that list add the names in your 37 marker matches that are exact or a genetic distance of 1 or 2. Make a new list of all of the surnames in the list you just created and indicate how many times that name is repeated in your list. If I were you I'd be interested in contacting anyone with a surname that repeated several time. See if they were in the same place your ancestors were in at the same time.

                Using this method you may have missed a good contact, but you have to start somewhere. I won't suggest ordering any more test until you have a good understanding of your current results and what the additional test might show.

                I just re-read your message and I see that you only have 1 37 marker match and he is a genetic distance of 2. Maybe you need to try to get some of those 25 marker matches to upgrade!

                As someone else suggested you need to decide what information you are looking for. Do you want information about your paternal line within the last few 100 years or do you want to know where you live might have originated 1,000's of years ago. This has a lot to do with which test you might want to order.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Many matches and Surname group

                  Hi
                  You are part of the existing McRae surname group?
                  It looks like the folks at that group have a handle on the Clan's migrations..have you asked them what they think?
                  There may be some family mutations that can pull you closer to one of them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
                    Hi
                    You are part of the existing McRae surname group?
                    It looks like the folks at that group have a handle on the Clan's migrations..have you asked them what they think?
                    There may be some family mutations that can pull you closer to one of them.

                    Hi Chris
                    I went and read the rest of your posts..which MCCray are you at the group?
                    It is very possible that Sadie's child could still be from her family of origin..
                    she seems never to have emancipated

                    My own unknown Grandfather could very well be a cousin/Uncle of my Grandmother.I have yet not completely proven disproven that, altho' it is not looking likely to me..I was told it was "rumor" in our small town.There IS a name on my Dad's birth certificate but he supposedly never saw it as he was later adopted by his Grandmother.

                    also in my years of Social Work I know that a rule of thumb always is "if there is absolutely no information on a child..look to the family"..stranger things than that happen..

                    Many of us do DNA for these reasons..looking for our "Own folks"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
                      Hi Chris
                      I went and read the rest of your posts..which MCCray are you at the group?
                      It is very possible that Sadie's child could still be from her family of origin..
                      she seems never to have emancipated

                      My own unknown Grandfather could very well be a cousin/Uncle of my Grandmother.I have yet not completely proven disproven that, altho' it is not looking likely to me..I was told it was "rumor" in our small town.There IS a name on my Dad's birth certificate but he supposedly never saw it as he was later adopted by his Grandmother.

                      also in my years of Social Work I know that a rule of thumb always is "if there is absolutely no information on a child..look to the family"..stranger things than that happen..

                      Many of us do DNA for these reasons..looking for our "Own folks"

                      Thanks for all of the responses!

                      Kathleen, I am a member of the McRae group. I am #138496 McCray, C.D

                      I got an email from them yesterday, here it is...
                      "Christopher David McCray is in the Irish DNA group. He matches the modal numbers exactly until he comes to GATA H4 where Irish is 12 and he is 11 and at DYS 456 where Irish is 15 and he is 14. His closest relations in the McRae DNA group so far are the SW Irish McCraws. Perhaps in the future he will upgrade to 67 markers to see how close these two groups really are."

                      It just worries me that I have no EXACT McCray matches in my 25 marker test, closest is GD1 on 25 marker, where 6 of my 47 GD1 matches are McCraws/McGraws

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by McCray
                        Thanks for all of the responses!

                        Kathleen, I am a member of the McRae group. I am #138496 McCray, C.D

                        It just worries me that I have no EXACT McCray matches in my 25 marker test, closest is GD1 on 25 marker, where 6 of my 47 GD1 matches are McCraws/McGraws
                        Chris
                        What you have to remember is that when Irish or Scottish men came here their name was spelled for them by "someone"..immigration or an employer and many many folks continued to spell it that way..
                        Since the vast majority of my family is Irish I know this to be true..
                        My William Faunt immigrated in 1869 from Tipperary..he came with a British Army pension so when his yearly $$ grant came to US it was spelled the English way"Faunt"..which is how he signed it.
                        His baptismal and marriage records in Tipperary, as well as most of his family spelled it "Fant". His brother's sons when they emigrated spelled it 3 ways..Fant and Faunt and even Font.
                        The family who DNA shows we are related to who are in America in 1708 or before spell it "Fant"..
                        Two men who spell it Font also match us exactly and they are NOT from the US.

                        So SW Irish McGraws are likely the root from which your Leonard came..
                        I would NOT worry about the spelling variations at all..

                        My Carrows when they came to America in 1640s were Carew/Carrew and Carrone and it had to do with the Gaelic and it's standardization ( or lack of it)
                        by 1730 all were spelling it Carrow and "we" match the others 37/37..
                        Carawan and Caroon do not match us at all..

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
                          Chris
                          What you have to remember is that when Irish or Scottish men came here their name was spelled for them by "someone"..immigration or an employer and many many folks continued to spell it that way..
                          Since the vast majority of my family is Irish I know this to be true..
                          My William Faunt immigrated in 1869 from Tipperary..he came with a British Army pension so when his yearly $$ grant came to US it was spelled the English way"Faunt"..which is how he signed it.
                          His baptismal and marriage records in Tipperary, as well as most of his family spelled it "Fant". His brother's sons when they emigrated spelled it 3 ways..Fant and Faunt and even Font.
                          The family who DNA shows we are related to who are in America in 1708 or before spell it "Fant"..
                          Two men who spell it Font also match us exactly and they are NOT from the US.

                          So SW Irish McGraws are likely the root from which your Leonard came..
                          I would NOT worry about the spelling variations at all..

                          My Carrows when they came to America in 1640s were Carew/Carrew and Carrone and it had to do with the Gaelic and it's standardization ( or lack of it)
                          by 1730 all were spelling it Carrow and "we" match the others 37/37..
                          Carawan and Caroon do not match us at all..
                          Oh no no, I meant exact as in exact marker matches, not spelling variations .

                          Are the chances higher that the McCraws are related to me than the people with higher level/exact matches?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by McCray
                            Oh no no, I meant exact as in exact marker matches, not spelling variations .

                            Are the chances higher that the McCraws are related to me than the people with higher level/exact matches?
                            I would say that IF you have a GD of 0 or 1 to someone whose surname is the same or a variant of your it is significant

                            Conventional wisdom is that more than 37 markers is needed for a R1b match but my men have 37/37 and we are very comfortable with that..

                            Who is your 25/25 match with? Is it a variant to your surname?

                            You do need to get to 37 markers I think..

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by McCray
                              Oh no no, I meant exact as in exact marker matches, not spelling variations .

                              Are the chances higher that the McCraws are related to me than the people with higher level/exact matches?
                              I would say that IF you have a GD of 0 or 1 to someone whose surname is the same or a variant of your it is significant

                              Conventional wisdom is that more than 37 markers is needed for a R1b match but my men have 37/37 and we are very comfortable with that..

                              Who is your 25/25 match with? Is it a variant to your surname?

                              You do need to get to 37 markers I think..

                              Comment

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