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DNA Tribes analysis of Native American DNA

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  • DNA Tribes analysis of Native American DNA

    http://www.dnatribes.com/news/2008_1...33207506980683

    I don't have any comment, except that the claim of the contribution of South American DNA to North Amerindian populations is original, so far as I know.

    Regards,
    Jim

  • #2
    It seems a leap to propose a south-to-north genetic flow based solely on degree of similarity. Why not a north-to-south flow, or similarity based on common roots (easternmost populations in the Americas as remnants of earliest expansions out-of-Asia into the Americas)?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Maria, Tom and others. I just updated my 15 marker and found some interesting things when comparing to the latest populations. My majority is NW European, but it is the minority race that most of us are interested in. My Mestizo score is (0.74) 25.06, Altaian 1.27, Patagonian 0.04, Malay Archip. 0.03 and then for Andean, Athabaskan and Mexican were all 0.01.
      By comparing these to DNA Tribes most recent Global Survey for an American Caucasian show some things of interest. The Athabaskan score is in the 95% range and the Patagonian score of 0.04 is above 95% range.
      Also on my extended panel I counted out of the first 250 results to see how many were either Native American, Hispanic or East Asian and came up with 48 out of the first 250 (all with scores way above 1). Total DNA Tribe populations are about 900 now. My Native American Panel also showed nothing, like several others. I believe this to be because of the mixture and also low number matches.
      This past year I did a lot of genealogy research and found some of my ancestors connected to the Coharie and Lumbee Tribes in N.C.
      When I get some money ahead I will update to the 21 marker also.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Tom...

        Nice to hear from you Tom! So happy that you have found 2 new connections...Looks like I have a double decent from Wahangonoche from his 2 daughters, Mary , through Waugh line and Keziah Arroyah, through Elkins line! Waiting to hear from Bill tribal hitorian....

        Maria

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Maria_W
          ...Looks like I have a double decent from Wahangonoche from his 2 daughters, Mary , through Waugh line and Keziah Arroyah, through Elkins line! ...
          So, here is a mechanism that could explain your AbDNA Native scores; "like marries like" ... that any degree of Native ancestry combined with relations with Native family places one outside the pale of White society and limits one options of "marrying out" into White society especially in the past when one's mobility was more limited than in the present.

          Comment


          • #6
            Cousins marrying cousins...

            Hi Tom,
            Dr. Faux, being a scientist, is saying no matter how many ancestors I have from the 1600's my 10% score will never be valid, so I sorta gave up! Its very confusing. Wahangonoche is alleged to have 3 daughters, (never found proof of 3rd one yet) Grace, Mary, and Keziah Arroyah. My connections are with Mary, (don't know Native name)and Keziah(Christian name) Arroyah(Native name). Like I stated my mothers Waugh line married into Mary's line. My fathers Elkins line married into Keziah Arroyah's line...Mary and Keziahs children married each other.

            Maria

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            • #7
              So, under the rubric of "like marries like" isn't it somewhat more likely than not that Mary and Keziah married men, at least, part Native? The mere fact that Mary and Keziah's children married one another indicates that there was a commonly-recognized family "identity" that was worth preserving. Or, to put it on economic terms, that intra-family alliances were still more valuable than White alliances.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jim Honeychuck
                http://www.dnatribes.com/news/2008_1...33207506980683

                I don't have any comment, except that the claim of the contribution of South American DNA to North Amerindian populations is original, so far as I know.

                Regards,
                Jim
                To me it looks like the start of scientific proof that the Indians that abandonded/fled/disappeared from areas of South America had survived and moved to North America.

                And the Athabaskan (Alaska) group sort of swoops eastwards.
                My only match in the native panel was to Athabaskan (Alaska), but my father's side is from New Jersey.
                The Woodland Indians (Lenape, etc.) may have been descended from some Athabaskans who moved east thousands of years ago.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Aren't we saying an awful lot from very limited information

                  Native American isn't "field" for me so I seldom offer comment. It seems to me from what I have seen that there are a lot of mights and little connecting of the dots. I am also unclear of the definitions here. For instance, would one define a Carib or Sarawak as South American or North American? Their range ran from Florida to Venezuela.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What's amazing, and what I didn't expect to see, is that there is way more Amazonian dna in North American Indians than Artic dna.

                    And the Salishan of NW North American are 55.8% Andean (from coastal South America).

                    http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2008-10-25.pdf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      reinforces my suspiscion

                      I often wondered about the distant origins of some of the Florida tribes. And the above link reinforces it. The Calusa and Timucuan tribes are conspicuous examples, and knowledge of other tribes' origins is about nonexistent. There was almost certainly ancient canoe contact between the West Indies and Florida.

                      As for South America, there were Mastodons and primitive ungulates, and only Paleontologists know what else were there when the first humans came along. So maybe the disappearance of big game in South America caused a reverse migration to North America?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        problem I see is that west indies is a known place north American indians were sent as slaves. now I do not imagine a lot of them survived..
                        But then again , they are on an island.. they knew the sea, they knew islands , and how to live off the sea. so the survival rate may have way exceeded the black African populations by many many times.
                        or not ..

                        so Rainbow that link won't load on my computer, dial up is too slow or something keep timing out. anyway Rainbow if you leave the island figures off... how does it look then.. is there still more connection between north America and south or north America and Alaska/Siberia ?
                        either way I believe a lot came from lots of places. when and how is a good question. course I already know how some of the 'we's" got here." but when is a good question.

                        shoot I just might have to eat my words .. if they start to figure it all out from abysmal DNA... well it won't be the first time and I doubt it will be the last either...
                        Last edited by purple flowers; 12 December 2008, 11:02 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by purple flowers
                          problem I see is that west indies is a known place north American indians were sent as slaves. now I do not imagine a lot of them survived..
                          But then again , they are on an island.. they knew the sea, they knew islands , and how to live off the sea. so the survival rate may have way exceeded the black African populations by many many times.
                          or not ..

                          so Rainbow that link won't load on my computer, dial up is too slow or something keep timing out. anyway Rainbow if you leave the island figures off... how does it look then.. is there still more connection between north America and south or north America and Alaska/Siberia ?
                          either way I believe a lot came from lots of places. when and how is a good question. course I already know how some of the 'we's" got here." but when is a good question.

                          shoot I just might have to eat my words .. if they start to figure it all out from abysmal DNA... well it won't be the first time and I doubt it will be the last either...
                          http://www.dnatribes.com/news/2008_1...33207506980683


                          There was gene flow on the west side along the Pacific coast, and gene flow on the east along the Atlantic. The genes on the Pacific side are somewhat different than the genes on the Atlantic side. Andeans went up along the Pacific coast to the Salishan area. Amazonians traveled up thru the Atlantic/Caribbean to North America. There was an upward flow. And a downward flow from the Arctic to the plains area. Etc. I'll look for more.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And reciprocal gene flow between Polynesia and Salishan.

                            There was another pdf about the South Seas that showed Native American and Australian and African genes in Polynesia.

                            And in the European pdf there is 15.9% Native American in the Altaian region (Eurasia).

                            Altaian is
                            38.0 % North Chinese
                            30.1% Northern European
                            15.9% Native American
                            8.2% Tibetan
                            7.4% Australian
                            0.4% Other


                            I think that is in the area where they have some blond people but they are considered Chinese (and the ydna there is Asian/Chinese).
                            Last edited by rainbow; 13 December 2008, 08:20 AM.

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                            • #15
                              RE Polynesian vs Salish

                              I don't know where the information comes from regarding Polynesian DNA mixed with Salish. But here locally in the Bellingham, Washington area, there was (I read somewhere) an historical importation of Hawaiians to do work. I think it had to do with boats, etc.

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