FGS and distance

[jaynegen]

Maybe one of you can help me. I had the mtdna FGS done and located someone who has only 3 differences:

I have 8618C and 10550G (and she does not); she has 10128T (and I do not). Can someone tell me how closely we are related? There are no hvr1 nor hvr2 differences at all.

Thanks!

[cacio]

jaynegen:

i think I've seen rates of one coding region mutation every 4,000 years or so. So it could still be in the thousands of years.

cacio

[jaynegen]

Thanks

jaynegen:

i think I've seen rates of one coding region mutation every 4,000 years or so. So it could still be in the thousands of years.

cacio

Cacio,

Thank you. I thought I had read that an hvr1 exact match means there's a 50% chance that there is a common ancestor within 1500 years, and with hvr2 also matching there is a 50% chance the common ancestor is within 750 years. Did I have that wrong?

[cacio]

I heard that story too, but I think the story is wrong. I think that most scientific paper usually use 1 HVR1 mutation every 20,000 years, where HVR1 is only up to 16393 or so. HVR2 is actually less variable than HVR1. So 1,500 years sounds way off.

If we use these numbers, an Eve 200K years ago means about 10 mutations, so that say, the difference between the standard European N's and the most distant African L's should be about 20 HVR1 mutations, which seems about right.

cacio

[Bill Hurst]

Maybe one of you can help me. I had the mtdna FGS done and located someone who has only 3 differences:

I have 8618C and 10550G (and she does not); she has 10128T (and I do not). Can someone tell me how closely we are related? There are no hvr1 nor hvr2 differences at all.

Thanks!

Hi Jaynegen,

I agree with Cacio. Three coding-region differences could mean your common ancestor was more than 10,000 years ago. K2a is one of our older K subclades and one which has lots of coding-region mutations. Your 8618C and the other person's 10128T are unique in the K FGS results I can see, so they could be fairly recent. 10550G is one of the defining mutations for K, so for the other person that would be a very rare back mutation.

Like a lot of us, you will just have to sit back and wait for an FGS match. I'm still waiting for a high-resolution match!

Bill Hurst

[tomcat]

...I think that most scientific paper usually HVR2 is actually less variable than HVR1...

This is the first I have heard of this although it is borne out by my experience; I have 4 perfect HVR2 matches and none on HVR1 and my closest GenBank match is a distance of 4 with 2 in HVR1 and 2 in coding region.

I have tried to interest my Mitosearch close matches in ugrading to FGS but it is a very hard sell. So, my hope, beyond a meaningful match, is that some advance in Mito phylogeny or the phyogeny of C offers an inducement to upgrade to FGS.

[jaynegen]

Hi Jaynegen,

I agree with Cacio. Three coding-region differences could mean your common ancestor was more than 10,000 years ago. K2a is one of our older K subclades and one which has lots of coding-region mutations. Your 8618C and the other person's 10128T are unique in the K FGS results I can see, so they could be fairly recent. 10550G is one of the defining mutations for K, so for the other person that would be a very rare back mutation.

Like a lot of us, you will just have to sit back and wait for an FGS match. I'm still waiting for a high-resolution match!

Bill Hurst

Bill, Cacio, and Tomcat too,

Thank you all for your answers, very helpful! I'll let the other person know we may not be all that closely related... and I'll wait for an FGS match.

Wouldn't it be nice if FTDNA had the genetic distance 1, 2 etc for mtdna like they have for ydna under ydna matches? I'd love that!
Jayne

[radio1]

How close are we?

I recently got back my FGS and it turns out that there are about 16 people (here and at other online places) who are an exact match. That is an exact match at HVR1, HVR2 and FGS. And although knowing that is really exciting and has given us an opportunity to e-mail each other and search for similarities i.e. common ancestral background. I still don't know how close that makes any of us are to each other. Many of us have grandparents or great grandparents from the same region in eastern Europe, several of us from a distance of less 100 miles. But because we are a mostly female bunch, none of the last names match-up. And we aren't aware of any cases of exact familial lines.
So just how close, within a matter of years (100, 1000, 10,000) does an exact FGS match make us?

[Bill Hurst]

I recently got back my FGS and it turns out that there are about 16 people (here and at other online places) who are an exact match. That is an exact match at HVR1, HVR2 and FGS. And although knowing that is really exciting and has given us an opportunity to e-mail each other and search for similarities i.e. common ancestral background. I still don't know how close that makes any of us are to each other. Many of us have grandparents or great grandparents from the same region in eastern Europe, several of us from a distance of less 100 miles. But because we are a mostly female bunch, none of the last names match-up. And we aren't aware of any cases of exact familial lines.
So just how close, within a matter of years (100, 1000, 10,000) does an exact FGS match make us?

Hi Radio1 and all,

With that many FGS matches with an eastern European ancestry, you may be in one of the two modal haplotypes for K1a1b1a. In your case, 1000 years between matches would be closer. There is not general rule for mtDNA matches. A modal K2a match might be 10,000 years.

Bill Hurst

[Yaffa]

Congrats!!!

I recently got back my FGS and it turns out that there are about 16 people (here and at other online places) who are an exact match. That is an exact match at HVR1, HVR2 and FGS. And although knowing that is really exciting and has given us an opportunity to e-mail each other and search for similarities i.e. common ancestral background. I still don't know how close that makes any of us are to each other. Many of us have grandparents or great grandparents from the same region in eastern Europe, several of us from a distance of less 100 miles. But because we are a mostly female bunch, none of the last names match-up. And we aren't aware of any cases of exact familial lines.
So just how close, within a matter of years (100, 1000, 10,000) does an exact FGS match make us?

This is great! Congratulations !!! You have now given all us FGS testers hope that one day we may find a match!

[tomcat]

I recently got back my FGS and it turns out that there are about 16 people (here and at other online places) who are an exact match. That is an exact match at HVR1, HVR2 and FGS. And although knowing that is really exciting and has given us an opportunity to e-mail each other and search for similarities i.e. common ancestral background. I still don't know how close that makes any of us are to each other. Many of us have grandparents or great grandparents from the same region in eastern Europe, several of us from a distance of less 100 miles. But because we are a mostly female bunch, none of the last names match-up. And we aren't aware of any cases of exact familial lines.
So just how close, within a matter of years (100, 1000, 10,000) does an exact FGS match make us?

AMAZING! Why don't you 16 pool your resources and hire a genealogist specializing in your common area of origin? Or publicize this astonishing match-up? Include all the ancestress surnames and see if you can turn-up someone with more information. I would think at least a few of you must be genealogically related. At the minimum your efforts might inspire others to DNA test.

Is 16 identical FGS a record?

[Deirwha]

And kindasorta made me nervous

I have not gone beyond HVR 1 and 2.

I match two women from Italy at 0 GD on both. I do not match my second cousin in 1, but do in 2. 7 other people I know from the same island who are reputedly related match on 1 but not on 2.

I know who my mother, grandmother and great grandmother were and I know who this second cousin's grandmother was. Other than different grandmothers we have the same great grandmother, but he has a marker I do not although we are both T.

Within a GD of 1 I have 14 matches, 7 from my mother's home island, the balance split between Italy and Germany.

So where how did it come out like this (or am I reading too much into this dialogue about K). The detail:

T*
HVR1: 16126C, 16163G, 16189C, 16243C, 16294T, 16519C
HVR2: 73G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C

[Deirwha]

oh yeah

Some in the literature have classed my T* as T1b

[radio1]

We 16 matches

Bill:

Our haplogroup is HV1.
A couple of us uploaded our results to GenBank. I hear that HV1 is pretty rare, but to find 16 FGS matches is truly amazing. I've been in touch with almost all and I can say we're a friendly sharing bunch. One of the group is doing a study and has shared some of the information she has gathered. Very interesting. But again, no common ancestor yet.

[Bill Hurst]

Bill:

Our haplogroup is HV1.
A couple of us uploaded our results to GenBank. I hear that HV1 is pretty rare, but to find 16 FGS matches is truly amazing. I've been in touch with almost all and I can say we're a friendly sharing bunch. One of the group is doing a study and has shared some of the information she has gathered. Very interesting. But again, no common ancestor yet.

Hi,

16 is more than the number of exact matches in K1a1b1a, which I think is 13 each in two modals with and without 16223T.

Bill Hurst