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9RA Autosomal Native American Marker

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  • Thinking

    Thinking about it and it may not be cheap. Since its autosomal and unk from which ancestor you would have inherited from.... The rare markers would either need to coordinate with MT/Y DNA Native Hgs or proven paper trail to an Indian ancestor and possible tribe. This would take a lot of time an research. The DNA they have now is from people who are proven to be tribal memebers of a specific tribe. Most on the outside may not be able to prove tribe. I know that most of the "Melungeon" issue can not prove any tribal affiliation. Jack's Sizemore DNA Q1. They know they came from VA, I was told Tribe Unk. Jack's Riddle line listed as Indian in VA tax records, tribe Unk.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Yaffa
      I agree. Here in this forum I know 4 of us who have proven NA ancestry but have not come up with rare repeats. All of us have common markers with many populations. Its hit or miss but affordable to take a chance. Even If I did not get the rare repeats, someone else in my family could have. This is why I am now testing my Uncle who is 2 generations closer genetically to our direct line Native DNA. He may still turn up with nothing. I know Dr Pabon of the AmInd project emailed all her participants about the marker but I don't know how many may have ordered the test. I also emailed the Mexico DNA project on the Idea of you starting a D9 project and study. Maybe Gary can get some of his people to DNA test. He has less than 850 people in the Mexico DNA project and close to 250 women turn up NA. This is a high % given the amount of people in the project.
      That is excellent Yaffa. Perhaps we could wait a bit until a few more 9 and 19/20 results come in then I could approach FTDNA about the possibility of stating a project for this marker, and any others that might come along which have ancestral informative value.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DKF
        That is excellent Yaffa. Perhaps we could wait a bit until a few more 9 and 19/20 results come in then I could approach FTDNA about the possibility of stating a project for this marker, and any others that might come along which have ancestral informative value.
        I let you know what Gary thinks. He hasn't emailed me back yet. May be if he gets a few of his participants willing to test and we get back some positive resuts, you can go from there. I can tell you I now have 86 matches on my MT-DNA HVR 1 but none of these matches that I know of have posted in this forum. With that said, how many people have tested D9 and have not posted their resuts in this forum. I would try and discuss this issue with FTDNA. Maybe they can come up with a figure and will be willing to email customers that come up with a rare repeat.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Yaffa
          I let you know what Gary thinks. He hasn't emailed me back yet. May be if he gets a few of his participants willing to test and we get back some positive resuts, you can go from there. I can tell you I now have 86 matches on my MT-DNA HVR 1 but none of these matches that I know of have posted in this forum. With that said, how many people have tested D9 and have not posted their resuts in this forum. I would try and discuss this issue with FTDNA. Maybe they can come up with a figure and will be willing to email customers that come up with a rare repeat.
          Yes, it would probably add a bit of undue complication to their lives, but if the good folks at FTDNA could set up a "red flag" system to note any potentially significant results (9/10; 19/20) and send an automatic e-mail refering them to a project - well, that could work.

          There is more to all of this and when Schroeder publishes her new work (sometime this year) there will be more to add to the discussion.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DKF
            Yes, it would probably add a bit of undue complication to their lives, but if the good folks at FTDNA could set up a "red flag" system to note any potentially significant results (9/10; 19/20) and send an automatic e-mail refering them to a project - well, that could work.

            There is more to all of this and when Schroeder publishes her new work (sometime this year) there will be more to add to the discussion.
            I agree that would be a good idea. But for now you could always discuss it with project administrators that are known for having native MT and Y DNA. They may know if their participants have tested this maker but just haven't posted. These administrators could always suggest to their participants to let you be notified of resuts for the study. Maybe these group administrators will back you up on having a specific D9 project with FTDNA.

            Comment


            • 9RA Autosomal Native American Marker

              Originally posted by DKF
              Yaffa, within Appalachia there may be little correlation between Y haplogroup and the repeat vallue on "9RA". The latter is an autosomal marker, on chromosome 9, and due to the extensive mixing in the Eastern USA, someone with 9 repeats from a NA ancestor could have Y haplogroup Q or R1b or mtDNA K or A - there probably will be no correlation. For example, anyone in Mr. Thorpe's extended family (upstream and downstream) could also have the 19 variant, it depends on which line was the originator. What is likely, though, is that due to intermarriage within the "isolate" communities, a particular variant (sue to genetic drift and founder effects) could be relatively high - higher than predicted. So it is possible that if from a NA source, the 19 variant could be found in say 10% of the Melungeon group(s) -being somewhat "fixed" due to the smaller inflow of outsiders to this community. Unfortunately this will involve testing an awful lot of people, and with no guarantees of success. The good news is that for FTDNA customers the price is not much more than a meal at Mickey D's.
              Dr Faux,
              I have a female cousin in South Carolina who had her brother's DNA run and
              when I told her about my 9RA results, she called FTDNA to have his run. Hopefully we will find enough 19 values to make better sense of this. They are in the Melungeon Project and with the same Collins and Gibsons connection as me.
              Cclelaand L. Thorpe
              Last edited by ; 23 September 2008, 04:40 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by cthorpeky
                Dr Faux,
                I have a female cousin in South Carolina who had her brother's DNA run and
                when I told her about my 9RA results, she called FTDNA to have his run. Hopefully we will find enough 19 values to make better sense of this. They are in the Melungeon Project and with the same Collins and Gibsons connection as me.
                Cclelaand L. Thorpe
                Cleland, Have you MT DNA tested any of your female lines? ( wives lines ) More European men married Indian women than the other way around. You may be comming up with a possible native maker from an Indian female rather than male. Just a thought.

                Good luck, I hope your cousin gets good results. The more we get willing to test the more we will know

                Comment


                • Originally posted by cthorpeky
                  Dr Faux,
                  I have a female cousin in South Carolina who had her brother's DNA run and
                  when I told her about my 9RA results, she called FTDNA to have his run. Hopefully we will find enough 19 values to make better sense of this. They are in the Melungeon Project and with the same Collins and Gibsons connection as me.
                  Cclelaand L. Thorpe
                  Excellent. That is pretty well it Cleland, it is playing the numbers game. Since the variant is likely to be relatively rare, except perhaps in a few families, it is not even possible to put a probabity figure on finding 9 or 19 at this point. Yes, now that we have data on the Sioux, we can say that with this group probably something like one in five will have the 9 variant and one in ten will have the 19 variant. Right now the Eastern Seaboard is a big question mark - but I suspect that there is going to be more interest among the academics and more research published, and so that will help us along some - as will all the folks who have reason to believe that they have a Native American ancestor somewhere in their lineage testing via FTDNA. The way it all works though is that just because you have one of the two variants, your cousins or siblings may not - but supposedly somewhere within you extended family it may be commonly found.

                  Comment


                  • 19 Variation

                    Originally posted by DKF
                    Not a single person within the group of Europeans, nor any from the Middle East had the 19 variation. It is unique to Native Americans and a straight line trail (it looks like a direct path) of people from Mongolia southwest to Afghanistan and one Muslim tribe in Africa. No one else in that long list of groups has 19 so it seems very rare and very specific. I will eventually have population geneticists give me their take on it. The distribution seems anything but random. Hopefully as the marker offerings expand each one of us will locate a number which have specificity and a story to tell.
                    Actually, my heritage is of the Middle East, Africa, and Eastern Europe. I have the 19 variation as well. Also, I am positive there is no Native American ancestry in my family.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FamilyLost
                      Actually, my heritage is of the Middle East, Africa, and Eastern Europe. I have the 19 variation as well. Also, I am positive there is no Native American ancestry in my family.
                      Thanks for your input. Well, so far that "fits" with the hypothesis (that the variant never reached northwest Europe). The line extends from the west coast of Africa, to one region in the north of that Continent, to the Middle East, to Pakistan, to Tibet, to Mongolia, to northeastern Siberia, and to North America. I will be very intrested to see if someone with strictly NW European heritage has the 19 variant and then my hypothesis will vaporize.

                      Comment


                      • 9RA Autosomal Native American Marker

                        Any thing new about 19 with regards to Autosomal Native American Marker?
                        Cleland L Thorpe

                        Comment


                        • 23andMe half identical 0.01 Gb block on Chromosome 10

                          Originally posted by DKF View Post
                          Thanks for your input. Well, so far that "fits" with the hypothesis (that the variant never reached northwest Europe). The line extends from the west coast of Africa, to one region in the north of that Continent, to the Middle East, to Pakistan, to Tibet, to Mongolia, to northeastern Siberia, and to North America. I will be very intrested to see if someone with strictly NW European heritage has the 19 variant and then my hypothesis will vaporize.
                          DKF,

                          Sorry for posting this here, but I could find a better place.

                          Are you still working on things like this?:

                          I hadn't run my own "family inheritance" tool for awhile.

                          I had a surprise. I have a 0.01 Gb half identical to another Finn on Chromosome 10.

                          Fun stuff there!

                          Any thoughts? Maybe I'll get lucky like Calamus and eventuallly get a good paper trail match as well?

                          Comment


                          • [QUOTE=rucksack;140453]DKF,

                            Sorry for posting this here, but I could find a better place.

                            Are you still working on things like this?:

                            I hadn't run my own "family inheritance" tool for awhile.

                            I had a surprise. I have a 0.01 Gb half identical to another Finn on Chromosome 10.

                            Fun stuff there!

                            Hi Rucksack,
                            Is what you are talking about from your 23andme test? Can you compare your results to other customers? And what is a 0.01 Gb? Is that from a male or female line or is it autosomal?
                            Sorry for all the questions but this test seems intense and I need to find out as much as I can in an attempt to find my Mum's unknown ancestry!!!

                            Also, would 23andme tell me if I had this 9RA autosomal marker?

                            Thanks.

                            Comment


                            • This is a For Sale article. if anyone buys it please report back.

                              Mol Biol Evol. 2009 Feb 17. [Epub ahead of print]

                              Haplotypic background of a private allele at high frequency in the Americas.

                              Schroeder KB, Jakobsson M, Crawford MH, Schurr TG, Boca SM, Conrad DF, Tito
                              RY, Osipova LP, Tarskaia LA, Zhadanov SI, Wall JD, Pritchard JK, Malhi RS,
                              Smith DG, Rosenberg NA.

                              Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis, Davis,
                              California, United States of America.

                              Recently, the observation of a high-frequency private allele, the 9-repeat
                              allele at microsatellite D9S1120, in all sampled Native American and Western
                              Beringian populations has been interpreted as evidence that all modern Native
                              Americans descend primarily from a single founding population. However, this
                              inference assumed that all copies of the 9-repeat allele were identical by descent
                              and that the geographic distribution of this allele had not been influenced
                              by natural selection. To investigate whether these assumptions are satisfied,
                              we genotyped 34 SNPs across approximately 500 kilobases (kb) around D9S1120 in
                              21 Native American and Western Beringian populations and 54 other worldwide
                              populations. All chromosomes with the 9-repeat allele share the same haplotypic
                              background in the vicinity of D9S1120, suggesting that all sampled copies of
                              the 9-repeat allele are identical by descent. Ninety-one percent of these
                              chromosomes share the same 76.26 kb haplotype, which we call the "American Modal
                              Haplotype" (AMH). Three observations lead us to conclude that the high
                              frequency and widespread distribution of the 9-repeat allele are unlikely to be the
                              result of positive selection: 1) aside from its association with the 9-repeat
                              allele, the AMH does not have a high frequency in the Americas, 2) the AMH is
                              not unusually long for its frequency compared to other haplotypes in the
                              Americas, and 3) in Latin American mestizo populations, the proportion of Native
                              American ancestry at D9S1120 is not unusual compared to that observed at other
                              genomewide microsatellites. Using a new method for estimating the time to the
                              most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all sampled copies of an allele on the
                              basis of an estimate of the length of the genealogy descended from the MRCA, we
                              calculate the mean time to the MRCA of the 9-repeat allele to be between 7,325
                              and 39,900 years, depending on the demographic model used. The results support
                              the hypothesis that all modern Native Americans and Western Beringians trace a
                              large portion of their ancestry to a single founding population which may
                              have been isolated from other Asian populations prior to expanding into the
                              Americas.

                              PMID: 19221006 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

                              Comment


                              • This thread is very old but want to put my result out there as people search on the subject. I had a 17, 18 result. I'm vastly European, was supposed to have a Native ancestor but keeps coming up other Asian or sometimes W./N/ African (but I have Iberian) ... usually West Asia (FTDNA says 5% Asia Minor, My Heritage about 3% W. Asia, etc. ) ... so maybe Turkey, Iranian, Indian, Pakistan, etc. The 18 could be European but much lower percents, no Basque on that one at all and many of the Native and Asian are higher. So feel like I am where I started but not an unexpected result.

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