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9RA Autosomal Native American Marker

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  • #76
    deCODEme and D9S1120/D9S919

    A very alert poster refered me to my own posting of a while back where I listed the percentage of African, East Asian, and European by chromosome from the deCODEme test.

    http://dna-forums.org/index.php?showtopic=2929&st=60

    D9S1120/D9S919 is located on chromosome 9. The deCODEme test attributes over 13 percent of my ancestry to East Asian on this chromosome. The only other chromosome where there is a strong East Asian presence is number 14 at 12 percent. Others drop to less than one percent. Since Native American is not tested, and the 19 variant is found in Asians from Pakistan to eastern Siberia, perhaps, as the poster stated, by odd chance I inherited a fairly extensive haploblock from my Six Nations ancestor that has been perserved intact.

    I wrote the author of the two papers on the subject, Schroeder, to provide the info re the 19 and 20 repeat variants, including the Google map, so we will see what she has to say about identical by descent and identical by state in this case.

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    • #77
      Chr 9....

      Since you mentioned the DeCodeMe test. Here are my results for Asian: Highest is Chromosome 4 which comes in at 11.7%, next is chromosome 9, which comes in at 10.8%. My results for D9S919 are 17/18. what does that mean. I haven't a clue....

      Maria

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Yaffa
        http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...=table&id=tbl1

        according to this 9 and 16 come up in high % in NA

        mentions what tribe so far turn up with 19 and other #
        Interesting, that site says that autosomal allele value of 19 is found among the Kalash people.

        Comment


        • #79
          17/18 combo...

          Thanks Yaffa,

          I was wondering what the other 69% of Amerindian population was comming up with... So thanks for the website...So I see that the marker results of 17/18 are still found in these Amerindian populations.

          Maria

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          • #80
            Here is a list of (if i counted right..)of repetes and the number of populations that they are found in from this website..

            1. 9 repetes: 21 populations.
            2. 10 repets: 1 populations.
            3. 11 repets: 5 populations.
            4. 12 repets: 22 populations.
            5. 13 repets: 14 populations.
            6. 14 repets: 39 populations.
            7. 15 repets: 70 populations.
            8. 16. repets: 73 populations.
            9. 17. repets: 71 populations.
            10. 18. repets: 61 populations.
            11. 19. repetes: 17 populations
            12. 20. repetes: 2 populations.

            List of lowest population to highest.

            1. 10 repetes: 1 population. (Maya)
            2. 20 repetes: 2 populations. (Chippawa and Southern Altia)
            3. 11. repetes: 5 populations. (Aluet, Inuit, Russian, Mozambite, Palistian)
            4. 13. repetes: 14 populations.
            5. 19 repetes: 17 populations.
            6. 9 repetes: 21 populations.
            7. 12 repetes: 22 populations.
            8. 14 repetes: 39 populations.
            9. 18 repetes: 61 populations.
            10. 15 repetes: 70 populations.
            11. 17 repetes: 71 populations.
            12. 16 repeats: 73 populations.

            So 10 repetes is very rare and 16 repetes is very common...

            My 17 result is found in 71 populations while my 18 is found in 61 populations. Both of these numbers are found among Amerindian populations also.

            Maria

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            • #81
              Welcome

              Originally posted by Maria_W
              Thanks Yaffa,

              I was wondering what the other 69% of Amerindian population was comming up with... So thanks for the website...So I see that the marker results of 17/18 are still found in these Amerindian populations.

              Maria
              I think most of the population, every ethnicity,in general carries 15,16,17,18 so there is no telling what our results mean!

              Comment


              • #82
                Oh well...

                Those numbers are very common so....15-18 are in 61-73 populations...
                I am so shocked I didn't find any stardust dna, I guess I am just a human instead of a starchild!

                Maria

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                • #83
                  Bagging a 9 or other repeat with incidence limited to NA and related populations is pretty good proof of NA ancestry, but results other than that are not conclusive proof against NA ancestry.

                  DNA results are poor substitute for paper ancestry.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Nagelfar
                    Interesting, that site says that autosomal allele value of 19 is found among the Kalash people.
                    Unfortunately that particular website has "formatting issues". It should represent what we see in the Schroeder paper. Perhaps a bowser other than IE would display the results correctly.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Mr faux
                      I don't want to keep doing this genetics thing anymore and so I wanted to add a few things for your investigation. maybe this will help you with your research some.I'm convinced enough .
                      you have been to that other site and I put my findings and suspicions on that site ... about meteors and such.
                      anyway some more things that might help build proofs and bridges and links.
                      are
                      one is at that site is drawing in a giant rock.... of south American indians with beards and one looks like it has a turtle in his lap.. if that is ancient Cherokee/ no matter what they were called then there . this may be one of the cultural links between them and the Fulani/ or ancient/ pre Fulani/ from the Nile/ probably Minoans..
                      now the Berbers called one town Sallee.. and the Fulani have the Coree Sallee ceremonies..
                      the Berbers say Sallee means Rock. and I don't know what it means in Fulani.. but I put somethings under the Wodaabe thread at Biod... about the Cherokee men having to be beautiful and contests for beauty in the Cherokee also. so important to the point when they had the pox. and were scared many Cherokee men committed suicide.. they would not be beautiful and not be chosen...maybe they may not get anymore.. they just a soon die.
                      anyway
                      so to tie these together.. we need to find out we need if Fulani/Wodaabe know if "Sallee" means turtle in their ceremonies...I am afraid they kept the name of their ceremonies in an original language but that their language now may not be their original language and thus they may or may not know what it means originally anymore. because Berbers and Fulani don't speak the same language and they may have once been the same people.. so there is a language issues there someplace I do not know why they do not speak the same language now.. but they may have at one point.

                      anyway Sallee or any turtle ( dasi) in Cherokee culture carried a word picture. most of their words were about actions not names.. thus like black berry , picking blackberry was "going to the scratchy spot.." so words are picture actions. so that word picture Turtle may of or may not of had to do with male body parts and actions.. depending on how it is used.
                      think word picture...thus a turtle coming out of it's shell resembles a.... get it?
                      so is the Coree Sallee celebration.. a celebration of male body parts? their actions or reactions?
                      maybe a resemblance to that of a rock or maybe something very firm or hard even.... ...I mean it is the time of year that all their women plan to get pregnant right ?
                      so we need to tie the Sallee's together.


                      also the Guanches are supposed to have come from the Berbers. but I wanted you to think about these things.
                      the Guanches word for God is
                      Magec... could this be hiding the same root as the words we call... Magi.. the star gazers who saw in the heavens the messiahs birth and went to Israel to find him .
                      the Cherokee said when they left two groups went different directions when their island sank.. I really believe they were once the Minoans.. but Minoans wasn't their name that is a made up name.
                      next the Guanches have a word Guayota for the 'devil'
                      I found this way to similar to the Indian words for Coyote " the trickster" also a picture image of the devil. and just so you know

                      " Likewise, the Guanches also maintained cultic relations with a god of evil, Guayota (identified as the devil by the Christian conquistadors), which lived in Echeyde, the Teide, which means "the Ominous One". Guayota does not appear to have been loved, but rather feared and respected. By night it took on the form of a solitary dog; an encounter with him was very dangerous"
                      so they also link the devil with a dog image. I can not tell if this has some link to any Spanish words.. and the link guayota/coyote is really somehow Spanish.

                      found here http://www.ctspanish.com/communities...y/guanche1.htm


                      also in that link the Guanches stopped wars to have their harvest games and feast and competitions.. I wonder if they are the same as the fulani and Cherokee's ? ..

                      I also have not yet found out yet not had time to investigate .. if it is the same with the people in the east connected to the "MAGI"/ star gazers/ wise men/ three kings etc etc . they know that some people from Minoans were in the IE language groups and in that valley .. but what were Magi traditions?

                      did they have this turtle competition and games and feasts too?

                      and did the Berber or physicians called their town Sallee because there is where they had their BIG Sallee traditional Competitions and feasts celebrations and games since Guanches had it did Berbers have this also? and does any of that turtle stuff tie into the south American giant rock with the hairy faced guy with a turtle in his lap?
                      now checkout your dna trail again and tell me if any of that makes sense?
                      I'm done and I burned out...
                      you guys have fun hunting alright !
                      I got my daughter and daughter in law and we just found out both pregnant due first of the year.. and I got 5 grand kids already under 6.. so real life is calling I'm going to get busy in a hurry hereand need to get busy now if I am going to be ready in a few more months.. and we will find out next week if it is going to be ANOTHER set of twins...
                      grand babies everywhere.... yahooooo!
                      you guys have fun.. I'm going too.
                      Last edited by purple flowers; 12 September 2008, 02:41 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Autosomal Panel 3

                        Originally posted by purple flowers
                        it wasn't saying they were the same, they are not..
                        this study showed Cherokee are not close genetically to any other southeastern people. THE closest is plains siouan. which was so odd... this must have to do with some kind of deep origins , something we do not now understand for it to be true.I think the answer is found in south America.. because the plains was a ice berg for at least 1000 years and the Sioux couldn't have been there then .
                        PS I'm a Collins. and a PONI ( 'big foot PONI Indian' supposed to be 'Blackfoot saponi ' is what I called it as a child)..:P I know all about that eastern Sioux stuff..
                        I am new to the DNA world but I recently got my panel 3 results and it was
                        17-19. I understand 19 is pretty rare. I have Collins and Gibsons ancestors
                        from Northern Virginia. Some of them turned up in Northwest Tennessee and
                        are known as Melungeons. It is said they were part white, black and Indian.
                        The Indian portion of this mix were Suion and Algonquin speaking people.
                        I followed Dr Faux's migration map that brought these people to Canada. In
                        that area is a Algonquin Providencial Park. I'm wondering if my Native Ancestors were in fact Algonquin speaking people and the connection with the
                        Canadian site. I need help in understanding my Heritage and Indian Roots.
                        Thanks in advance.
                        Cleland L. Thorpe

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by cthorpeky
                          I am new to the DNA world but I recently got my panel 3 results and it was
                          17-19. I understand 19 is pretty rare. I have Collins and Gibsons ancestors
                          from Northern Virginia. Some of them turned up in Northwest Tennessee and
                          are known as Melungeons. It is said they were part white, black and Indian.
                          The Indian portion of this mix were Suion and Algonquin speaking people.
                          I followed Dr Faux's migration map that brought these people to Canada. In
                          that area is a Algonquin Providencial Park. I'm wondering if my Native Ancestors were in fact Algonquin speaking people and the connection with the
                          Canadian site. I need help in understanding my Heritage and Indian Roots.
                          Thanks in advance.
                          Cleland L. Thorpe
                          Your marker is autosomal.Could come from either your mother or father lines and wont indicate which ancestor it came from. Being that said you would not be able to tell what surname it came from. The only way would be to cross Y and MT DNA from each direct line in your family and have them test. Even if one of your ancestors were to come up with a Native Haplogroup on Y and MT DNA, it will not tell you tribe. Only a paper trail leading to a tribe will tell you. Dr Faux has a paper trail to the Mohawk.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            9RA Autosomal Native American Marker

                            Originally posted by Yaffa
                            Your marker is autosomal.Could come from either your mother or father lines and wont indicate which ancestor it came from. Being that said you would not be able to tell what surname it came from. The only way would be to cross Y and MT DNA from each direct line in your family and have them test. Even if one of your ancestors were to come up with a Native Haplogroup on Y and MT DNA, it will not tell you tribe. Only a paper trail leading to a tribe will tell you. Dr Faux has a paper trail to the Mohawk.
                            Thank you for your post. I understand what you are saying and agree.
                            With the Indians in Northern Virginia having migrated with the Anglos to Northwest Tennessee, later being called Melungeons; Is there any connection
                            to the 19 value?
                            Cleland L. Thorpe

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by cthorpeky
                              I am new to the DNA world but I recently got my panel 3 results and it was
                              17-19. I understand 19 is pretty rare. I have Collins and Gibsons ancestors
                              from Northern Virginia. Some of them turned up in Northwest Tennessee and
                              are known as Melungeons. It is said they were part white, black and Indian.
                              The Indian portion of this mix were Suion and Algonquin speaking people.
                              I followed Dr Faux's migration map that brought these people to Canada. In
                              that area is a Algonquin Providencial Park. I'm wondering if my Native Ancestors were in fact Algonquin speaking people and the connection with the
                              Canadian site. I need help in understanding my Heritage and Indian Roots.
                              Thanks in advance.
                              Cleland L. Thorpe
                              if you weren't asking for poni info I would say ...
                              RUN cousin..RUN>. don't look back or you too might turn to a pillar of salt.. but the people at Saponi town are very helpful.. and it does look like it is very possible the 19 genetics might be tracing exactly where the poni ancient stories say we came from.
                              if they are tracing saponi and tutalo dna historical paths .. you might have it back wards .. because the tutalo went into the Mohawks in canada.. there were only a few Tutalo speakers left and I now do not know how many are left. we just haven't been able to get the money to try and go there.

                              but people at saponi town are very very helpful and please do read all of the links on the historical sections on the first page. unless you want to become a " traditional saponi gardener" I probably can't help you with much else.. you are in KY so there is lots of doing in VA and OH saponi people.. which would be close to you . happy hunting..

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by cthorpeky
                                Thank you for your post. I understand what you are saying and agree.
                                With the Indians in Northern Virginia having migrated with the Anglos to Northwest Tennessee, later being called Melungeons; Is there any connection
                                to the 19 value?
                                Cleland L. Thorpe
                                Dr Faux I know is really interested in studying this marker so it's good that you came up with a 19. Not many people have tested for this marker. The more that test the more we will know.It may take a while before we get any answers. I don't know if any of the VA tribes have participated in a study. I just spoke w/ Jack Goins on your post. Jack and I tested but came up with common markers even though my MT-DNA is Native. I have now tested my Uncle to see what it brings. The more you convince your Melungeon researches to test the better. There is no way of knowing if you might come up with a pattern running in the Collins, Gibson, ect lines.

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