9RA Autosomal Native American Marker

[DKF]

Upon reading this posting by Thomas Krahn, I ordered an autosomal marker that 31.7% of Native Americans possess.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/r...8-07/1216396844

Specifically, 9 repeats (very short) on D9S919 (aka D9S1120) has been found in all Native American populations and a couple at the other end of Beringia - but in no other groups whatsoever.

My results from FTDNA arrived today: 18 - 19. A sharp eyed lister on Rootsweb noticed that my 19 repeats is very very rare, but found in 6 Native American tribes, Mongolians and Yakuts, one East Asian group, and a few Arab populations. It is by far most common among the Sioux (11% versus half that at most with any other population and more commonly 1%). Humm. Interesting, particularly since no Six Nations were tested. I will need to check on what is known about the Siouan compared to the Iroquoian peoples in terms of possible genetic connections. I know I am not of Monglian or Arab descent so that leaves Native American (assuming that this repeat value of 19 comes from my Mom - which will need to be checked).

[Clochaire]

so sad ...

So sad that a supposedly well educated person wastes time in chasing such marginal and racialist phantasies.

If someone is really interested in connecting to her native American culture, she should just commit to the lingo or some characteristic cultural artform, instead of playing pathetically meaningless "Tribes" games that will only change 180 degrees tomorrow.

Jack

[tomcat]

Thought your ancestry was Mohawk, or at least "Iroquoian". Both "Sioux" and Mohawk and all other "Iroquoian" are "Siouian" speakers.

[DKF]

So sad that a supposedly well educated person wastes time in chasing such marginal and racialist phantasies.

If someone is really interested in connecting to her native American culture, she should just commit to the lingo or some characteristic cultural artform, instead of playing pathetically meaningless "Tribes" games that will only change 180 degrees tomorrow.

Jack

I have land deeds, diaries, obituaries and so on in relation to my Native American ancestors - they are well documented back to the 1600s. The same as my European ancestors. I have found out just about everything one can imagine about my European ancestors, why not explore what can be found about those who were First Nations?

One of my Mohawk ancestors was Mary Hill Kateriunigh (She Carries the News) the head woman, matron (chief maker) of the Bear Clan, of Tionondeoge (Ft. Hunter) and later resident of the Tyendinaga Reserve, Deseronto Ontario. The rest settled on the Six Nations Reserve of the Grand River Ontario Canada. Why would having DNA evidence be any different than finding yet another record? Actually I can answer that - because it is interesting and if you don't think so I think you need to look for another hobby. Did you read your words before posting. If so that is very disturbing. Have you heard of something like spell check.

[DKF]

Thought your ancestry was Mohawk, or at least "Iroquoian". Both "Sioux" and Mohawk and all other "Iroquoian" are "Siouian" speakers.

Yes, the documented part is Mohawk. It has been years since I have written on the subject or done any reading and frankly I have forgotten a great deal in my zeal to understand the ins and outs of the latest genetic, archaeological, etc. research. I have largely ignored the Native American side since I am blessed with a paper trail to complement family stories about great grandfather's mother. Since Tribes and ABDNA have serious flaws, and we have yet to realize the full blessings of the deCODEme testing, this will give me something to chew on. The 19 repeat value was not found in any European population tested - still, who knows, more research is needed.

[tomcat]

..
One of my Mohawk ancestors was Mary Hill Kateriunigh (She Carries the News) the head woman, matron (chief maker) of the Bear Clan, of Tionondeoge (Ft. Hunter) and later resident of the Tyendinaga Reserve, Deseronto Ontario. The rest settled on the Six Nations Reserve of the Grand River Ontario Canada. ...

The French Mohawks. Good choice!

[purple flowers]

I can't find it now but I know it is the study that had the Cherokee/Iroquois woman a B I think who also had the 270 mutations. in that study it says that southern Cherokee were closer related to Sioux than too other SE tribes.. thus chances are that some parts of the Sioux also came from the direction of the rising sun like some parts of the Cherokee or the main body of Cherokee . not the setting sun like many other tribes . plains SIOUX are included in this study, but it is about MTDNA .
If you wish to see that study I will continue to look for it , but only if you need it but it is about mtdna.

[PDHOTLEN]

Catawbas

The siouan-speaking Catawbas in the Carolinas had early contact with colonial settlers; also the Souan-speaking Tutelo-Saponis of Virgnia (according to an old Nat Geo map I have). One of my apparent (i.e. if I traced right) ancestors (a Jacob Falconbury, b.1757) was from Anson County, NC; which was Catawba country. I wonder how he got along with them.

U5b2 & R1a1*

[DKF]

[QUOTE=PDHOTLEN]The siouan-speaking Catawbas in the Carolinas had early contact with colonial settlers; also the Souan-speaking Tutelo-Saponis of Virgnia (according to an old Nat Geo map I have). One of my apparent (i.e. if I traced right) ancestors (a Jacob Falconbury, b.1757) was from Anson County, NC; which was Catawba country. I wonder how he got along with them.

QUOTE]
The Catawbas aka Flatheads were the ancient enemies of the Mohawks. Every spring the latter would make a trip south, not seeking the sun, but scalps and prisioners (many of whom were adopted into the tribe). One of my ancestors (Aaron Hill Oseraghete - He Carries a Spear) led a war party, was captured, placed on a stake in the middle of the Catawba village while the people began the torture ritual. The head chief then made an appearance in his blue coat (a gift from the French) and stopped the proceedings (good for me and thousands of fellow Canadians who are alive because of Aaron) with the proviso that Aaron return to his village with a peace message. An offer Aaron apparently could not refuse.

Hence if perchance my 19 repeat allele did come from the NA side, it could have been via the Flatheads - now that is a stretch but it was just a couple of hundred years ago - not that long ago. The Mohawks may have also had that allele value, but were not tested so we can only guess.

[DKF]

I can't find it now but I know it is the study that had the Cherokee/Iroquois woman a B I think who also had the 270 mutations. in that study it says that southern Cherokee were closer related to Sioux than too other SE tribes.. thus chances are that some parts of the Sioux also came from the direction of the rising sun like some parts of the Cherokee or the main body of Cherokee . not the setting sun like many other tribes . plains SIOUX are included in this study, but it is about MTDNA .
If you wish to see that study I will continue to look for it , but only if you need it but it is about mtdna.

Sure, wouldn't hurt. Thanks. What I would really like is for all who have Native American ancestors to take this test (the price is very modest). I would like to see if others have the 9 or 19 allele.

[DKF]

The 19 repeat allele

Here is a bit of research I did in response to a posting on Rootsweb from Robert T.

Every allele (STR and SNP) has a history that could in theory reach as far back as Africa. We don't generally know when they emerged. However the 9RA STR allele is telling us a story. Looking at its distribution this allele must have had its origin in Beringia about 15,000 years ago. It has an almost exact parallel in the distribution of YDNA haplogroup Q3 and I would not be surprised if they arose in the same person. Today 9RA is found only in the areas of Siberia closest to the former land bridge to Alaska. From that point it fans out to encompass every Native American group from the far north to the depths of South America.

I did an analysis of the 19 repeat allele. In the Old World it is found in Arab Africa, a cluster of Arab tribes in Afghanistan and surrounds, then in a straight line to a Tibetan people residing in China to Inner Mongolia of China to the Yakuts and Mongolians to the north and there it stops. Now in the New World it is found in the Aleutians, across the Canadian Northwest Territories to the Dogrib and as far as one can go to east with the Innuit of Greenland. The direction is then central to the Sioux and southwest to the Chihuahua area of Mexico and finally south to the Maya of the Yucatan Penninsula and there it stops. There appears to be structure since there is nothing in Central Asia or Europe or the Pacific Islands but there is a linear path to or from Africa. If this represents a single founder effect the question becomes "where was the point of origin"? Was it Africa to the Arab world to nearby Tibet and Mongolia before crossing the Bering Straight, or did it start in the Tibetan area and bifurcate eastward and westward. Either way it must be a very old mutation. I can literally connect the dots on the map in the article and it shows a definite path to the New World with no detours. All of this may be just one big coincidence, but the fact is that there are ancestral informative markers and with D9S919 (D9S1120) it is possible that not only the shortest repeat allele, but also the longest repeat allele could be sending a signal that is there to be read. It at least deserves further study.

[Nagelfar]

A sharp eyed lister on Rootsweb noticed that my 19 repeats is very very rare, but found in 6 Native American tribes, Mongolians and Yakuts, one East Asian group, and a few Arab populations. It is by far most common among the Sioux (11% versus half that at most with any other population and more commonly 1%).

I have no known Native American ancestry and 19 repeats there, being that 17 repeats is supposed to be common in European populations I suppose it isn't unheard of to get to 19 within the European range? (This is why I like autosomal SNPs better than STRs, the factor of certainty)

[purple flowers]

http://www.worldfamilies.net/mtdna/u5/disc

sorry THE LINK IS BROKEN .
by accident or on purpose!
hum ? maybe someone didn't' like what it suggested
sorry!
but it was in that study which the link doesn't work now.


and sorry I will not do autosomal .

now when if my daughter has a daughter and she just found out she is pregnant , we will do her mtdna .

[Yaffa]

D9 -

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2375964

This paper show that not just 9 repeates show up in NA but only 9 repeats show up in NA and no other ethnicity

[Yaffa]

This is sad!!!!

So sad that a supposedly well educated person wastes time in chasing such marginal and racialist phantasies.

If someone is really interested in connecting to her native American culture, she should just commit to the lingo or some characteristic cultural artform, instead of playing pathetically meaningless "Tribes" games that will only change 180 degrees tomorrow.

Jack

This is sad. Many can prove Native ancestors and cant prove tribe through paper. So what kind of artform should they take on??? Many Tribes who paracticed diffrent things and spoke many different languages. DNA may help those one day prove possible tribes should they find rare genes that are specific to a tribe. May help find out what their culture was before European assimilation.