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  • Native American Ancestry

    I read this but I am now confused.

    "The Y-DNA test Ethnic and Geographic Origins: All Y-DNA tests allow you to identify your ethnic and geographic origins, both recent and far distant on your direct male descending line. Among others, you will be able to check your Native-American or African Ancestry as well as for the Cohanim Ancestry."

    How can the Native American Ancestry show up on a Y test if the Native American was introduced into the family via a female? Thanks!

  • #2
    It can't. If it was introduced in your direct female line you need to have the mitochondrial (mtdna) test done.

    If the Native American ancestry crossed gender lines at any point before it came to you, it will not show up on either test. If this is your situation, and it happened in the last 2-3 generations, it may show up on something like a DNAPrint test. This tests combined DNA--i.e. that which you inherited from both your mother and your father. However, unless you know who was the relative who had the Native American DNA, it won't identify it--because of the very fact it tests across gender lines. This test cannot distinguish WHO you inherited it from--just that you have it.

    Comment


    • #3
      If you wanted to find if someone was Native American in your pedigree best thing to go from the female line is try to find a direct female descendant from the NA female you are trying to find out that NA. Bleh, Did that make sense? This can then use a mtDNA test. If you can find a male descendant from her father that is if he was NA then have a Y-DNA test. Although I was unaware Y-DNA could distinguish NA.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lucy
        It can't. If it was introduced in your direct female line you need to have the mitochondrial (mtdna) test done.

        If the Native American ancestry crossed gender lines at any point before it came to you, it will not show up on either test. If this is your situation, and it happened in the last 2-3 generations, it may show up on something like a DNAPrint test. This tests combined DNA--i.e. that which you inherited from both your mother and your father. However, unless you know who was the relative who had the Native American DNA, it won't identify it--because of the very fact it tests across gender lines. This test cannot distinguish WHO you inherited it from--just that you have it.
        i might be off here cause i don understand mtdna well yet buit i think if you have two females or males mtdna tested and another somewhere ahead of both of the younger testees that relationships can be established .
        so if the younger two and the older cross the intergender mixup wouldnt that show up? hope this isnt a stupid statement

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jim Denning
          i might be off here cause i don understand mtdna well yet buit i think if you have two females or males mtdna tested and another somewhere ahead of both of the younger testees that relationships can be established .
          so if the younger two and the older cross the intergender mixup wouldnt that show up? hope this isnt a stupid statement
          i also meant to say with paper work showing eachs positions

          Comment


          • #6
            A son will match his sister and mother. The son will not pass mtDNA to his son.

            Comment


            • #7
              Jim,
              I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.

              A man can only have two direct lines tested-his father's direct male line and his mother's direct female line. A woman can have only her mother's direct female line tested (because she doesn't have a y chromosome).

              However, if the PARENTS are tested, then you now have 3 lines tested--the father's male & female direct lines, and the mother's direct female line. If the mother has a living brother (the subject's uncle), better to get him tested as then the mother's direct male line can be identified as well.

              Even BETTER, if both grandfathers can be tested along with a brother of each grandmother, then 8 lines can be identfied (2 per each male).

              However, there probably are not many people who are in that situation where the men two generations back exist, are willing to be tested, and there is the budget to have them all tested!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jim Denning
                i also meant to say with paper work showing eachs positions

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SpiritHawk
                  suppose you have a community with 100 clusters of familes each cluster is at least 20 families sons brothers and grandfathers with g's attached these cluster families have lived in this small area 100+ years basicly everyone is a relative but paper only provides cluster at the moment .
                  out of this community y testing would be of limited use only connecting what basicly have with a surprize here and there

                  its my understanding mtdna would show relations not up the y ladder but all lines
                  i am a denning my mom is a dever her mom was a cogan dads mom a malone testing my mtdna should show these lines where if someone tested a dever female dna who i knew was in my cluster shouldnt there be some sign of us being related

                  i think i understand as generations pass this wears down and fades out unlike ydna and my sons should be substabtialy different from mine due to my wife being 50%
                  so back to the clusters is two people say named murphy and denning tested mtdna some relationship would be evident if it was there.

                  so if i have this murphy boy and i wanted to show relationship besides the 99$ 1st 12 the mtdna would be good because the y wouldnt match mine probably but his mtdna might if our two clusters are close.

                  now do this on a scale of 80,000 names with loads of people doing the mtdna with say 1000 clusters in a 100 year period. all sorts of conections should be made

                  this is the situation in chelsea revere and winthrop ma
                  i have that kind of database i suspect tons of conections i just have found the conections. wouldnt mtdna show the relation ships

                  so if my mom dever gets tested 82 and the murphy grand ma94 my wifes mazzola 84 yr old mom my daughters & a murphy grandson and me
                  it should be that gma dever and mazzola should conect with my daugther i would conect with my dau and gma dever but if the murphys are related to dennings the murphy boy and his 94 yrs old gma should conect to me and my daughter

                  now if a dever close to my mom connected to a murphy close to 94 yr old murphy they could conect maybe with out conecting to me the murphs boy or my daughter becasue of space and time

                  are any of these the correct assumptions

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lucy
                    It can't. If it was introduced in your direct female line you need to have the mitochondrial (mtdna) test done.

                    If the Native American ancestry crossed gender lines at any point before it came to you, it will not show up on either test. If this is your situation, and it happened in the last 2-3 generations, it may show up on something like a DNAPrint test. This tests combined DNA--i.e. that which you inherited from both your mother and your father. However, unless you know who was the relative who had the Native American DNA, it won't identify it--because of the very fact it tests across gender lines. This test cannot distinguish WHO you inherited it from--just that you have it.
                    From SpiritHawk to Lucy: I am still trying to figure out how to do this reply process so here goes! I found that statement at >http://www.familytreedna.com/description.html#YDNA37. < Since it did not specify "only if the Native American was male" hence my confusion. The original Native American was a female of the Tsalagi (Cherokee) who "married" a man (probably of English origins) who had been kidnapped in the 1600s when a boy. He was traded to and raised by the Cherokee. It was one of his female descendants that married my Bush ancestor in the 1750s. So this would have been NA female to a male Osborn then the female Osborn to the Bush line. My brother is taking the Marker-37 test for the Bush surname project. I guess the best thing for me to do is just wait to see what his results show. I do have membership in a non-federally recognized tribe based on my female NA ancestor. We also have Native American ancestry from a maternal great-grandmother who got it from her paternal grandfather. This would make it another cross-gender situation, NA male to female and then female all the way to myself. I read the descriptions on the MTA tests but have not decided what do do in that regard. Thanks!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mr Denning,
                      The mtDNA test is exactly like the Y-chromosome test in the fact that it test only one "direct" line, that line this time being the maternal line. On the "direct" maternal line the surname obviously changes with each generation. This test does not however test "all" the lines, only the "direct maternal line. You would inherit your mtDNA from your mother (a Dever), she got hers from a Cogan. The Malone mtDNA from your dad's mom would only be passed to her children and passed on further only by her daughters (your dad would receive her mtDNA but would not pass this on to you).
                      Any Dever female tested would not have the same mtDNA as you (except your sisters) unless they descend from the same direct maternal line as your mother.
                      The mtDNA does not wear down or fade out. Your sons mtDNA will match their mother (100%) and has nothing to do with you. You are 50% of the recombining DNA, a 100% of your sons Y-chromosome DNA but 0% of their mtDNA. Hope this helps some.
                      Don Potter


                      Lucy,
                      These DNA tests only can track DNA passed through a "direct" male or "direct" female line. If you cross genders with your NA heritage these test will not show that. So if your NA ancestor was female, only her "direct" female descendants will have her mtDNA (her sons would have also but would not have been able to pass it to the next generation). If your NA ancestor was male, only his "direct" male decsendant would show his Y-chromosome DNA. The male side is usally much easier to trace from a genealogical perspective as the surname should stay the same down through the generations. Hope this helps some and good luck.
                      Don Potter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Lucy,
                        These DNA tests only can track DNA passed through a "direct" male or "direct" female line. If you cross genders with your NA heritage these test will not show that. So if your NA ancestor was female, only her "direct" female descendants will have her mtDNA (her sons would have also but would not have been able to pass it to the next generation). If your NA ancestor was male, only his "direct" male decsendant would show his Y-chromosome DNA. The male side is usally much easier to trace from a genealogical perspective as the surname should stay the same down through the generations. Hope this helps some and good luck.
                        Don Potter [/B][/QUOTE]


                        Don,
                        I thought that was exactly what I said. Sorry, if I wrote the explanation in a way that was not clearly understood by you.

                        Lucy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SpiritHawk
                          From SpiritHawk to Lucy: I am still trying to figure out how to do this reply process so here goes! I found that statement at >http://www.familytreedna.com/description.html#YDNA37. < Since it did not specify "only if the Native American was male" hence my confusion. The original Native American was a female of the Tsalagi (Cherokee) who "married" a man (probably of English origins) who had been kidnapped in the 1600s when a boy. He was traded to and raised by the Cherokee. It was one of his female descendants that married my Bush ancestor in the 1750s. So this would have been NA female to a male Osborn then the female Osborn to the Bush line. My brother is taking the Marker-37 test for the Bush surname project. I guess the best thing for me to do is just wait to see what his results show. I do have membership in a non-federally recognized tribe based on my female NA ancestor. We also have Native American ancestry from a maternal great-grandmother who got it from her paternal grandfather. This would make it another cross-gender situation, NA male to female and then female all the way to myself. I read the descriptions on the MTA tests but have not decided what do do in that regard. Thanks!
                          The easiest, most visual way I have come up with to show what the y-dna and the mtDNA will test is the following:

                          Create a "Pedigree" chart with any genealogy software in which you have entered in all of your genealogical records. (I believe they all format this in the same way, so this should work regardless of the software used.) Put the name of a male relative at the far left side--this is the person whose pedigree is being illustrated. Across the top of the chart there will be a line of all male ancestors. Across the bottom of the chart will be a line of all female ancestors.

                          The y-dna test will test for the y dna that was passed all along the line of the males at the top of the page. The mtDNA test will test for the mitochondrial dna passed all long the line of females at the bottom.

                          NEITHER test will pick up any of the ancestral lines in-between. This is the cross-gender situation I was referring to earlier.

                          If you perform the above test with a female pedigree instead of a male (i.e. the person you start with at the far left is a female), the ONLY test the female can get is the mtDNA test which will test the line of females at the bottom because a female does not have a y chromosome.

                          BUT, I would like to point out--that if you are fortunate enough to have VERY extensive records which document all your lines to the current generation, you could use such records to find out which of your current (albeit probably distant) cousins to test for some of those relatives that cross gender lines in your pedigree. Simply pick out a person on one of the other straight male or straight female lines, peform a descendancy chart, and follow the straight male or straight female line to the current generation.

                          This is the easiest, most visual, way I have found to show people in my relation what the DNA tests are testing. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. (I usually highlight the Y-dna line in blue and the mtDNA line in pink--hokey and sterotypical, I know, but it works.)
                          Last edited by Lucy; 5 September 2004, 10:35 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lucy
                            Lucy,
                            These DNA tests only can track DNA passed through a "direct" male or "direct" female line. If you cross genders with your NA heritage these test will not show that. So if your NA ancestor was female, only her "direct" female descendants will have her mtDNA (her sons would have also but would not have been able to pass it to the next generation). If your NA ancestor was male, only his "direct" male decsendant would show his Y-chromosome DNA. The male side is usally much easier to trace from a genealogical perspective as the surname should stay the same down through the generations. Hope this helps some and good luck.
                            Don Potter [/B]

                            Don,
                            I thought that was exactly what I said. Sorry, if I wrote the explanation in a way that was not clearly understood by you.

                            Lucy[/QUOTE]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jim Denning
                              Originally Posted by Lucy
                              Lucy,
                              These DNA tests only can track DNA passed through a "direct" male or "direct" female line. If you cross genders with your NA heritage these test will not show that. So if your NA ancestor was female, only her "direct" female descendants will have her mtDNA (her sons would have also but would not have been able to pass it to the next generation). If your NA ancestor was male, only his "direct" male decsendant would show his Y-chromosome DNA. The male side is usally much easier to trace from a genealogical perspective as the surname should stay the same down through the generations. Hope this helps some and good luck.
                              Don Potter [/B]
                              Lucy
                              [/QUOTE]

                              okay let me get this and it applies to my people or NA'S
                              my moms dna is passed to me and my daughters and it stops after me in the
                              male line
                              HTML Code:
                              only her "direct" female descendants will have her mtDNA
                              which female the paternal grand mom?
                              somehow a mtdna with lucys NA or my chelsea will get passed on how does that happen

                              maybe this is a better way to ask

                              a black marrys a white and an asian marrys a NA two generations pass
                              the black is the paternal the asian the maternal

                              the grand daughter offspring female gets mtdna test which dna is read or is it a combo of all of them?

                              Comment

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