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E haplogroup but no subclade

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  • E haplogroup but no subclade

    I've had the FTDNA Y-67 test that suggested my haplogroup as "E." I then had the SNP backbone test to confirm my haplogroup. That test confirmed my haplogroup as E.

    I understand that E, like other haplogroups, has many subclades (E1, E2, etc.). What I'm trying to understand is whether there are some people who belong to haplogroup E, but are not a member of any of the subclades. If so, does the result of my SNP test confirm that I am not a part of one of the subclades of E? Or is it simply unclear which subclade I'm a member of?

  • #2
    I do not recall any discussions of E* (that is, E, but not belonging to any known subclade), but I haven't read the literature well. I'd be surprised if the backbone test tested for anything more than the haplogroups formerly known as E3a and E3b (now E1b1a and E1b1b), so my guess would be that you belong to E but not E3a and E3b. This leaves many (less frequent) haplogroups within E:

    If I remember correctly, Ethiopia, as usual, has more diversity of E's overall. Certain parts of Central-West Africa (such as Mali) have a lot of E1. I think there also exist (very few) people who are DE*, but neither D nor E.

    You should ask ftdna what they test exactly for the backbone test.



    • #3
      vague recollection of seeing something...

      Somewhere in that "Empires of the Word" book, I recall seeing a relationship between Ethiopia and the Akadians of the Near East, at least linguistically. And recall a drying of the Sahara around 3,500 BC, which caused migrations out of North Africa. So maybe there is some residual haplogroup E in the Mesopotamian (Iraq) region. (Or did I remember it wrong?)


      • #4

        I have not read the book, but I think you are right about the (very rare) presence of ExE3a,b in the Middle East. (All the haps in this post use the former classifications).

        For instance, the Luis paper on Oman and Egypt has 2% E2 in Oman and 1% E1 in Egypt. (The al Zaheri paper I know of doesn't show any in Iraq, but that's just one sample). Zalloua has 5 E* (perhaps a mistake, though technically they could be of some particular untested subgroups) and 2 E1 in Lebanon (out of 914 observations, so that's a very small fraction). As you say, they could have come from Africa in ancient times, neolithic or otherwise.

        Of course, in our specific case, it will depend on dkrasnegor's background. If he's African American, then this could be a Sahel-West African E1, or perhaps a rarer E2. I think there are African American E1's on ysearch. If he's European/Jewish, then perhaps it's one of these rare ME people.



        • #5
          Hi D,

          As cacio said, your backbone test confirms that you are E, but not E1b1a (former E3a) or E1b1b (former E3b). FTDNA currently does not include E1a or E2 in their backbone or deep-subclade tests.

          However, several months ago, some of FTDNA's E customers worked out a special project to test for E1a and E2, and several of those members were confirmed to be E1a. So not everyone reported as E by FTDNA is necessarily E* (* meaning negative for ALL known subclades).

          There is a tight cluster of Jewish E members (my uncle is one of them and you are one of his matches), but unfortunately no one from this cluster was included in the special project, that I'm aware of. So I don't know yet if this Jewish cluster could also be E1a, or if it could be E2, or if it is truly E*.

          My recommendation would be to contact FTDNA and find out if they would be willing to test you for E1a and E2. I've been planning to contact FTDNA about this issue myself, but hadn't gotten around to writing the email yet.

          By the way, I'll be changing the name of the Jewish E3b project to the "Jewish E" project or similar in the near future. I've always welcomed members of your cluster into the project, but the name change will make it more official


          Last edited by efgen; 2 July 2008, 12:50 AM.


          • #6
            Thanks for all the suggestions--I wish that it had been a bit more clear on FTDNA that the SNP test was so limited. I'll contact them to see if they're willing to test for other subclades...

            Daniel Krasnegor


            • #7
              Other companies do test for E1,E2 and E3

              If your ancestry is Jewish, I remember somebody here discussing the fact that there were some ExE3 Jewish people, so perhaps that should be a possibility.



              • #8
                maybe not significant afterall...

                I just looked up the reference to Akkadian and Ethiopic vs Semetic, ect. The author ("Empires of the Word") wrote: "In certain ways Akkadian and Ethiopic are more alike than their intervening Semetic cousins; and the rampant desertification of the Sahara c.3500 BC would have provided a fair motive to be moving out of North Africa."

                R1a1* & U5b2


                • #9

                  very interesting. Is the book good?

                  I wonder how much is known about the phylogeny of middle eastern and N African languages. I think I had heard the hypothesis that the big family of languages to which, among others, ancient Egyptian, Berber, and the semitic languages belong, has highest diversity in E Africa. The semitic languages however are found only in the Middle East and Arabia, and, from there, they moved to Ethiopia (amharic).

                  Either way, there were trades and connections between E Africa, the Nile valley, and the Levant, so it should not be a surprise to find traces in the Y chromosome.



                  • #10
                    I wouldn't be surprised if E was one of the first haplogroups in what is now Israel. The earliest cultures there, the Kebarans and the Natufians, both appeared to have connections to Egypt and East Africa. Both groups were present before the spread of agriculture (and haplogroup J), although the Natufians made one of the first transitions from a hunter-gatherer society to a more sedentary farming existence.
                    Last edited by josh w.; 4 July 2008, 01:43 PM.