What about all the ancestors not included in the Y-DNA & mtDNA tests?

[rpavellas]

Perhaps this is explained already somewhere, but I don't know enough to know where to look. I (and now we) know as much as can currently be known about my maternal haplogroup (K1a4a) and my paternal haplogroup (J2e1 or J2b, depending on nomenclature), but there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of other ancestors in my personal gene pool. How are these accounted for in any of the tests performed on my DNA sample, if at all? Thanks much. My contact email address has changed to [email protected]

[Hando]

Perhaps this is explained already somewhere, but I don't know enough to know where to look. I (and now we) know as much as can currently be known about my maternal haplogroup (K1a4a) and my paternal haplogroup (J2e1 or J2b, depending on nomenclature), but there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of other ancestors in my personal gene pool. How are these accounted for in any of the tests performed on my DNA sample, if at all? Thanks much. My contact email address has changed to [email protected]

For me too, that is a very good question. Thanks for asking.

[tomcat]

Perhaps this is explained already somewhere, but I don't know enough to know where to look. I (and now we) know as much as can currently be known about my maternal haplogroup (K1a4a) and my paternal haplogroup (J2e1 or J2b, depending on nomenclature), but there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of other ancestors in my personal gene pool. How are these accounted for in any of the tests performed on my DNA sample, if at all? Thanks much. My contact email address has changed to [email protected]

To learn about other ancestors, you must test your extended family for Y and Mt DNA - aunts, uncles, cousins who carry the Y and Mt DNA of your 'internal lines' such as your mother's father or your father's mother, Y and Mt DNA that is part of your ancestry but not part of your personal DNA.

You can also test yourself and others for X chromosome and Autosomal markers although these are still somewhat speculative and difficult to attribute to specific lines. FTDNA's offerings for X and At are limited but you can find them under Advanced Orders on your FTDNA Personal Page.

Other companies offer whole genome scans in which hundred of thousands to a million SNP's are sequenced. But again, such results can be difficult to attribute unless you test your extended family for comparison. At $1K per test that can be a rather expensive proposition. (See www.decodeme.com or www.23andme.com).

[rpavellas]

Thanks for the reply ...

... but then I have an observation that possibly is also a another question. If I have detailed knowledge only of all the males in my paternal line, and also only of all the females in my maternal line, I therefore have no knowledge of all the thousands of other people who have contributed to my genetic heritage. Of what value then are these studies about the less than 0.01% of any individual's genetic heritage? To say, for instance, my Ur-mother came from Italy ("Katrina," I believe) is really a fantasy, although a pleasant one. Similarly for the paternal line, which most likely originated in Anatolia. This really shows the possible or probable origin of two of my ancestors of many generations ago. There is really nothing much left of their contribution to my genome, yes? I just don't want to be foolish in assessing what these results mean to me as an individual. If they have value to the studies often referred to, than that's all right and I am glad to contribute. Is there no general look at the entire genome of an individual from the tissue sample we submit?

Best wishes,

Ron Pavellas

http://pavellas.blogspot.com

[Hando]

... but then I have an observation that possibly is also a another question. If I have detailed knowledge only of all the males in my paternal line, and also only of all the females in my maternal line, I therefore have no knowledge of all the thousands of other people who have contributed to my genetic heritage. Of what value then are these studies about the less than 0.01% of any individual's genetic heritage? To say, for instance, my Ur-mother came from Italy ("Katrina," I believe) is really a fantasy, although a pleasant one. Similarly for the paternal line, which most likely originated in Anatolia. This really shows the possible or probable origin of two of my ancestors of many generations ago. There is really nothing much left of their contribution to my genome, yes? I just don't want to be foolish in assessing what these results mean to me as an individual. If they have value to the studies often referred to, than that's all right and I am glad to contribute. Is there no general look at the entire genome of an individual from the tissue sample we submit?

Best wishes,

Ron Pavellas
http://pavellas.blogspot.com

Very good valid point MrPavellas. I too have thought of this several times.

[tomcat]

... but then I have an observation that possibly is also a another question. If I have detailed knowledge only of all the males in my paternal line, and also only of all the females in my maternal line, I therefore have no knowledge of all the thousands of other people who have contributed to my genetic heritage. Of what value then are these studies about the less than 0.01% of any individual's genetic heritage? To say, for instance, my Ur-mother came from Italy ("Katrina," I believe) is really a fantasy, although a pleasant one. Similarly for the paternal line, which most likely originated in Anatolia. This really shows the possible or probable origin of two of my ancestors of many generations ago. There is really nothing much left of their contribution to my genome, yes? I just don't want to be foolish in assessing what these results mean to me as an individual. If they have value to the studies often referred to, than that's all right and I am glad to contribute. Is there no general look at the entire genome of an individual from the tissue sample we submit?...

Yes, the Y and Mt lines are a tiny fraction of total genetic make-up, although they are special for being direct line inheritances, and may provide a general guide to ancestry if, for example, your Italian Katrine was Italian with a thoroughly Italian pedigree, from a specific Italian village. Then most of what can be known about Italians from her village will also be true of her, and by extension, you.

Genetic genealogy is like paper genealogy in that people get involved to expand their knowledge of their personal ancestry and then expand beyond their family's story into cultural history, ancient history, anthropology and archaeology, and so on, and so deepen their appreciation of their individual ancestries.

But if you want the genetic facts, you have to spring for the tests. And if you want comprehensive, save your pennies for an entire genomic sequence, costs about $350K, billions of base pairs, a volume that can be printed-out now but will not be fully deciphered for years to come.

[rpavellas]

Thank you very much, tomcat ...

This clears up my questions completely and I feel that I am no longer in the dark about this matter.
Best wishes,
Ron

[rainbow]

2.5 www.ancestrybydna.com
That tells you your ancestry from all your ancestors, not just the ydna & mtdna.
But in 4 basic categories: European, African, East Asian, and Native American.
I had that one two years ago, and it was only about $180 or $200.

[rivergirl]

2.5 www.ancestrybydna.com
That tells you your ancestry from all your ancestors, not just the ydna & mtdna.
But in 4 basic categories: European, African, East Asian, and Native American.
I had that one two years ago, and it was only about $180 or $200.

I had thought about getting tested with ancestybydna or something similar, but as I already know all my ancestors came from Europe, (UK, Denmark, Sweden, France,) it wouldnt really tell me anything.
Can they delve deeper into the European in anyway???

[rivergirl]

I should have just followed the link that Rainbow had put up.

They do EuropeanDNA 2.0, for people with European ancestry, who expect little non European ancestry.
Split into;
Southeastern Europe (SEE)
Iberian (IB)
Basque (BAS)
Continental European (CE)
Northeastern European (NEE)

But at 650 USD it might have to wait a while...

[tomcat]

At 650 USD you might as well save a bit longer and go for the million SNP's of DeCodeMe for 1K.

[rainbow]

I should have just followed the link that Rainbow had put up.

They do EuropeanDNA 2.0, for people with European ancestry, who expect little non European ancestry.
Split into;
Southeastern Europe (SEE)
Iberian (IB)
Basque (BAS)
Continental European (CE)
Northeastern European (NEE)

But at 650 USD it might have to wait a while...

Yeah, it's very expensive now. They raised the price. I think it's about double or triple since 2 years ago. Back then I had ordered the Euro 1.0 (now they have a 2.0) because I thought I was 100% European, with a possibility that I was 97% European with maybe only 3% East Asian, if my Czech grandfather had some Hun/Mongolian ancestry, but my result was a complete surprise. AncestryByDna said they ran the 2.5 first and I didn't qualify for the 1.0 so they refunded the difference. Anyone who gets 15% or more Native American on the 2.5 does not qualify for the Euro test. Mine is 17%.
After that I ordered a report from another company www.dnatribes.com to see what tribes I match. I have no Amerindian matches. I at first matched Athabaskan Alaskan but that became a non-match in an update. The shock I got from DNATribes was that they said my second highest match was to Maputo, Mozambique....that is in Africa. I am not African. Had lots of African matches until the marker upgrade of Penta D & E. Now my second highest match is Bahrain.
My known ancestry is a solid 1/4 Czech and 3/4 British Isles (with some German, Swiss, French, & Swiss thrown in the UK portion).

[rainbow]

At 650 USD you might as well save a bit longer and go for the million SNP's of DeCodeMe for 1K.

I think I read somewhere that these 1 million SNP's tests are pretty useless for people who want to know more about their Native American ancestry. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[rainbow]

And Dutch. At least I have lots of Flemish matches, and that is from my fathers mothers father, who was part Dutch (colonial. New Netherlands).

When I can afford it I'll go for the 21 marker upgrade at DNATribes.

[rivergirl]

Thanks Rainbow and Tomcat,

I'd be pretty surprised if I came back with any Native American or African. I can trace all my lines back to Europe, with all bar the Irish lines going back to early 1700s, some back to the 1600s. My ancestors only migrated to Australia and New Zealand from 1850 onwards, with half coming out in the 1900s.
I do have a few illegitimate births in their though, and I'm guessing the unkown fathers would have been Danish and English. But you never know...

I'll look into decodeme.