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Y-DNA J1 with DYS388=13 (map added)

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  • Jim Honeychuck
    replied
    The number of cases of J1 with DYS388=13 increases at just a snail's pace, and now stands at about 99.

    The distribution of J1 with DYS388=13 is as follows:

    Turkey, unknown ethnicity: 6
    Turkish: 2
    Armenian: 3
    Armenian, not confirmed J1-M267: 12
    Greek of Anatolian origin: 4
    Assyrian: 2
    Syrian: 3
    Syrian Christian: 1
    Iran, from a Turkish? ruling dynasty: 1
    Russia, Caucasus, Daghestan: 12
    Azerbaijan, Azeri: 1
    Pakistan: 1

    Germany: 4
    Britain or Ireland: 4
    France: 2
    Poland: 2
    Romania: 2
    Slovakia: 1
    Czech, Moravian, Valach/Wallachian: 1
    Ukraine, German colony: 1


    Sicily: 3
    Other Italy: 1
    Cyprus: 1
    Lebanon (JxJ2): 5
    Portugal: 1
    Jewish, Sephardic: 1
    Jewish, Sephardic, JxJ2 (probably J1): 2
    Spain (ancestrally Sephardic?): 5
    Kurdish, Jewish, not confirmed J1-M267: 3
    Kurdish, Muslim, not confirmed J1-M267: 2
    Bedouin: 2
    Arab, Palestinian: 1
    Arab, other: 1
    Druze, Israel: 1

    Unknown: 5

    One or more of the British cases is probably ancestrally Sephardic from northern Iberia.

    At least three and possibly all of the Eastern European cases may be ancestrally Armenian.

    You can see the cases with known locations on a Google map at http://tinyurl.com/3kwulm

    Regards,
    Jim

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  • Jim Honeychuck
    started a topic Y-DNA J1 with DYS388=13 (map added)

    Y-DNA J1 with DYS388=13 (map added)

    (Revised 7 April to add a link to a Google map of most of the cases: http://tinyurl.com/3kwulm )

    J1 with DYS388=13 is a distinctive type of Y-DNA J1 which apparently originated about 11,000 to 13,000 years ago in the foothills of the Taurus Mountains of southeast Turkey or the adjacent Zagros Mountains of Iran.

    For the rationale behind the identification of this area as the place of origin of J1 with DYS388=13, see the academic paper at evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Cinnioglu2004.pdf , and the conference presentation summary at http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/proj...stractKing.pdf . The conference presentation summary suggests the age of 11,000 to 13,000 years. A rough estimate of the greatest Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) between any two cases in my amateur analysis is in that ballpark: 11,640 years.

    For a list of archaeological sites contemporary with the time that the earliest men having of J1 with DYS388=13 lived, see the section "Southeastern Turkey sites database" at www.canew.org/data.html . In general, this area is the upper Euphrates River and its tributaries in northern Syria and southern Turkey, and the uppermost stretch of the Tigris River in Turkey. A site known to be contemporary with the earliest J1 w/DYS388=13 is one of the oldest villages in that region, Hallan Cemi, which was on the Tigris River and is now submerged by it. Whether Hallan Cemi was the "home town" of all the J1 with DYS388=13 cases is impossible to say.

    J1 with DYS388=13 is not associated with any particular ethnicity or religion. Its place of origin is beyond the area associated with Arabs and Jews, and almost no cases of this type have been found among those populations. In its home region, J1 with DYS388=13 has been found among Turks, Greeks, Kurds, Assyrians, Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Lebanese one Iranian of probable Anatolian descent, and several ethnic groups in the southern Caucasus. A handful of cases have also been found in northern Europe.

    Here is a summary of where J1 w/DYS388=13 has been found.

    Ysearch.org currently has at least 28 cases, some of which are shown as J or Unknown but are probably J1, with these places of origin:

    Sivas, Turkey
    Elazig, Turkey
    Edessa/Urfa/Sanliurfa, Turkey; (Armenian)
    Trabzon, Turkey (Greek)
    Ordu, between Samsun and Trabzon, Turkey (Armenian)
    Pontus (NE coast of Turkey) (Greek)
    Semdinli, Turkey (Assyrian)
    Kalymnos, a Greek island off the coast of Turkey
    Greece
    Astarabad, Iran (ancestrally Anatolian?)
    Bavaria, Germany
    Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany
    Germany (three unrelated cases, no specific locations)
    Southern Ukraine
    Sicily (two cases)
    Syria (Arab Byzantine Christian)
    Poland (two unrelated cases)
    Slovakia, near the Polish border
    England or Scotland, unknown (two related cases)
    Spain, two cases plus two other cases with Spanish surnames
    one case with no geographical information

    Also, academic papers by Cinnioglu et al., Bosch et al., Nebel et al., Sengupta et al., Zerjal et al., Weale et al., and Zalloua et al. report cases of J1 or J(xJ2) w/DYS388=13 in:

    Istanbul, Turkey
    Sea of Marmara area, Turkey
    Northeast Turkey
    Eastern Turkey
    Central Turkey
    Ploiesti, Romania
    Southern Pakistan (Sindhi)
    Bedouin from the Negev
    Palestinian Arab
    Kurdish Muslims and Jews from Iraq
    Azerbaijan, ethnic Azeri
    Russian Republic of Dagestan in the Caucasus, ethnic Lezgi or Lezginian
    Armenia (predicted to be J1)
    Lebanon (Maronite Christian, Sunni, and Shia)

    The Czech DNA Project at FTDNA.org has one case from an area of Moravia which was settled by Wallachians from the Balkans.

    You can see the cases with known locations on a Google map at http://tinyurl.com/3kwulm

    The database at YHRD.org has several possible cases from the Caucasus, and two from southern Poland, but as they do not show a value for DYS388 they cannot be counted.

    Six other likely cases from Moldova are noted in an academic paper by Varzani, "Population history of the DniesterCarpathians: evidence from Alu markers" (see http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokser...=981561349.pdf ), but no value for DYS388 is shown.

    The presence of J1 w/DYS388=13 in Greece probably reflects movement among Greek colonies during the Greek empire, with one recent displacement.

    None of the European cases north of Greece is a close relative to any of the cases which are from the area of origin of J1 with DYS388=13.

    Plausible explanations for the rare presence of this type in Europe north of Greece are taking shape:

    1. The southern Ukraine case is probably a result of movement among Greek colonies.

    2. The two Czech and Slovak cases are probably related within 1,000 years, and are both from areas settled by Wallachians or Vlachs who moved from Romania northwest along the Carpathians in the 1400s and 1500s. Those cases have an exact 7/7 match with a case (without DYS388) from present-day Moldova.

    3. Several sources note the participation of Moldavian cavalry in the Battle of Grunwald in north central Poland in 1410. The site of that battle is just 25 miles or 40 kilometers or so from where one of the Polish J1 cases is from. That Polish case has an exact 7/7 match with a case (without DYS388) from present-day Moldova.

    4. The other Polish case and the two German cases with known places of origin are all from the same general area. The Polish case and one of the German cases are probably related to each other within the past few centuries; the northernmost German case differs on several markers. The 15th century Polish historiographer Jan Dlugosz wrote that men from what is now Moldova participated in a Polish campaign against the German March of Brandenburg in 1342. So maybe these three cases are descended from soldiers who went north to participate in that campaign. Those cases do not have exact matches on the northern or western shore of the Black Sea.

    5. A British case is listed on Ysearch with Ireland as the place of origin of the earliest known ancestor. That case does not have a known place of ultimate origin. However, the surname is associated with an area of northern England which straddles Hadrian's Wall. Roman remains from that area document the presence of a Roman unit called Cohors Primae Dacorum or First Cohort of Dacians on Hadrian's Wall in the early 3rd century. Dacia was in what is now Romania. The British case has an approximate match with a case from modern Romania, with a genetic distance of 2, roughly equivalent to 1,700 years of separation:

    14 13 23 10 11 12 14 16 11 England
    14 13 23 10 11 12 13 15 11 Ploiesti, Romania

    The British case also has an 11 for 11 match with a case in Lebanon. That match requires more thought.

    Clusters

    Although it is not possible to calculate exact distances in time between cases, there do seem to be about four clusters among the 68 cases in my collection.

    1. About 17 cases are related to each other within roughly 330 to 720 years. They include all four of the Pontic Greek cases, four of the five Turkish cases from the paper by Cinnioglu, both of the British cases, two cases about which I have no information, one of the self-contributed Turkish cases (Taspinar), and two of the cases from Daghestan in the Caucasus.

    2. A second cluster is cases apparently related within 1110 to 1680 years. That cluster is simply many of the cases from the aforementioned "Pontic cluster" plus the case from Ploiesti in Romania, the Armenian from the Black Sea coast near Samsun, the Armenian case from the south (the two Armenian cases are not closely related), another one of the Daghestan cases, and one of the cases with a Spanish surname. I suppose a name for this group might be "Pontic-Transcaucasus cluster."

    3. If two is enough for a cluster, then Rakowitz of Poland and Potzler of Germany are a cluster at 750 years.

    4. Another small cluster is myself along with Schenn/Trzecinski of Poland and a case from the Czech Republic, all three possibly related within 1,000 years. Those three cases might be part of a larger cluster of some, but not all, J1 w/DYS388=13 plus DYS19=15. That DYS19=15 cluster would be:

    Hanicak/Honeychuck, NE Slovakia
    Schenn/Trzecinski , northern Poland
    Czech Project case 100414
    Arm105 (2 cases), Syunik, Armenia and Turkey just west of the border with Armenia
    Cin. 163, eastern Turkey
    Ayden, Elazig, Turkey

    Some academic papers contain cases without a value for DYS388 but which are J1 and similar, even identical, to cases of J1 w/DYS388=13 plus DYS19=15. Those cases are:

    Nasidze 2003, Lezginian from Daghestan in the Caucasus
    Nasidze FSI 2003 case 252 from Georgia
    Nasidze FSI 2003 353 six cases: 1 Rutulian, 2 Lezginian from Daghestan in the Caucasus; 1 Armenian; 2 Azerbaijanian
    Varzari 74, Gagauz from Kongaz, Moldavia

    Assuming those cases without a value for DYS388 belong in this cluster, plotting all these DYS19=15's on a map shows an obvious grouping in the contiguous areas of eastern Turkey, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Daghestan. Farther away are Ayden of southeast Turkey, the case in Moldova, and the Czech-Slovak-Polish cluster. Thus, both the narrow and broadly focused evidence suggests that the origin of a cluster of J1 w/DYS388=13 plus DYS19=15 is the Transcaucasus region.

    5. The five Lebanese cases do not appear to be a cluster. The closest any two are related is around 1,000 years ago, and the most distant, over 3,000 years.

    Jim
    J1 w/DYS388=13
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