Attila in Britain?

[burto]

Hi,
I just looked into what tribes inhabited the area where my Mum and Aunts maternal English ancestors came from, and genetically people from that region are a mix of Ancient Briton, Angle, Dane and Norman. Did Attila reach the Angles and Danes before they migrated to Britain?
Just trying to make some sense of my Aunts Tribes results which are basically Polish/Russian...she even gets some Mongolian on her world match. She's 100% English-just a random group of alleles perhaps?

[Jim Honeychuck]

Hi,
I just looked into what tribes inhabited the area where my Mum and Aunts maternal English ancestors came from, and genetically people from that region are a mix of Ancient Briton, Angle, Dane and Norman. Did Attila reach the Angles and Danes before they migrated to Britain?
Just trying to make some sense of my Aunts Tribes results which are basically Polish/Russian...she even gets some Mongolian on her world match. She's 100% English-just a random group of alleles perhaps?

I guess you must conclude that your aunt's father has some Eastern European ancestry. What's his surname? Or if you don't want to post it, look it up here to see if it might not be originally English: http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/default.aspx

Jim

[Hando]

The Romans also brought over legionaires to England, who were related to the Parthians. In fact there is a book that theorises that parts of the Arthurian traditions of the rightful king claiming his throne through a sword in the stone comes from these peoples who brought over their legends to England.

[burto]

Hi,
Thanks for all the info-that website is great-I didn't realise how area specific some of my ancestors surnames are!
Which just confirms the fact that their ancestors remained in the same spot for centuries, so my maternal GM's line is truely English.
My Aunt's father's surname is very English and common in the area he was from.
I do think it's just a random group of alleles producing this score-I just hoped that it maybe reflected her Angle ancestry. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

[derinos]

Attila in Saxony 500 AD

One of the reasons motivating a westward move of Saxons towards Britain was the arival of Attila and his Mongols in Saxony ca AD 500 ..

[Hando]

One of the reasons motivating a westward move of Saxons towards Britain was the arival of Attila and his Mongols in Saxony ca AD 500 ..

Attila and his Mongols or Huns? Not being facetious, simply curious...

[rainbow]

Attila and his Mongols or Huns? Not being facetious, simply curious...

I think Derinos probably meant Huns.
I don't know about anyone else but for me (I'm American), Hun and Mongol are pretty much interchangeable/synomynous. My mom always said she thought I was part Mongolian on my fathers side, because he was half Slavic. Most likely some Hun, if anything. Or Scythian or Sarmatian. As my mom would say, "Whatever. It's the same thing."
Just different time periods and leaders, but ethnically the same thing.
Sarmatians were sent to England during the Roman occupation and were considered Romans because that is what their leaders were.
So maybe Burto's aunt's father was descended from the Romans in Britain who were actually Sarmatian and that's why she gets a high match to Mongolian.

[burto]

Hi,
It's just frustrating cus of me and Mum getting East Asian scores with ABDNA we thought "ooh maybe NA or PA Dutch ancestry etc" and now her half sister gets pure East European matches on Tribes! So is it via their mother? We are getting her tested with ABDNA too to solve the problem!

Saying that I just looked at Tribes' sample for German and it has virtually the same matches as my Aunts and the world match is in roughly the same order, so I guess her scores must be Saxon!

[derinos]

Terminology: Central Asian DNA markers.

Sorry if I introduced a terminology debate.
Attila is known to us, from reading ancient reports, to have been called a "Hun" ; Jingis Khan, similarly sourced, a "Mongol".

Both hordes of hipophilic archers invaded westwards from their ancient nomadic home in the central Asian plains, and were likely, but not certain, to have maintained similar gene-pools.

We cannot obtain samples from those actors, but form our DNA opinions and terminology from current samples from the present denizens of the region.
We are now calling some of our newly-learned chemical identifiers, in higher levels in samples from that regional source, "mongol" identifiers.

How these gene-bands got into our testees' bodies raises questions to be partly answered by historic deduction. But ain't it fun?

[Hando]

Most likely some Hun, if anything. Or Scythian or Sarmatian. As my mom would say, "Whatever. It's the same thing."
Just different time periods and leaders, but ethnically the same thing.

I agree with you about Huns and Mongols being similar in genes. But were the Scythians and Sarmatians from the same gene pool as the Mongols and Huns? I always thought Scythians and Sarmatians were Indo-European...

[derinos]

Hi,
It's just frustrating cus of me and Mum getting East Asian scores with ABDNA we thought "ooh maybe NA or PA Dutch ancestry etc" and now her half sister gets pure East European matches on Tribes! So is it via their mother? We are getting her tested with ABDNA too to solve the problem!

Saying that I just looked at Tribes' sample for German and it has virtually the same matches as my Aunts and the world match is in roughly the same order, so I guess her scores must be Saxon!

"Germany" was a collective term the Romans used for all the land and people north and east of Gaul. Even today modern Germany comprises numerous provinces with different linguistic styles (and DNA subclades, if you can afford the fees.)
This is my day to mumble about terminology as related to what we call our ancestor groups.


Saxon? Today it means "somebody from Saxony", a an independent province which was joined to many others to form modern Germany , less than two centuries ago ?

Saxon? In early Welsh and Gaelic, "Saeson" or "Sassenach", meaning hated invading pagans who carried a short sword, which the owners called a "Seax". (In modern W and G, the same word means "English").
In fact the negatively-regarded shortsworders or longknifers, were from several different tribes with homely names like "Gewissae" "Jutters" "Angles" "Mercians", moving westwards to a Britain depopulated by plagues and Roman succession wars. They moved west because of disturbances in their homelands, of which Attila's occupation was only one part.
Anyway, your aunt can truly say she has matches in modern Germany. "Brito-Germanic" is a fair description. And we talked about one possible historic source of "Central Asian matches", perhaps a more acceptable term than "Mongol".

[Jambalaia32]

Not Surprising

Hi,
I just looked into what tribes inhabited the area where my Mum and Aunts maternal English ancestors came from, and genetically people from that region are a mix of Ancient Briton, Angle, Dane and Norman. Did Attila reach the Angles and Danes before they migrated to Britain?
Just trying to make some sense of my Aunts Tribes results which are basically Polish/Russian...she even gets some Mongolian on her world match. She's 100% English-just a random group of alleles perhaps?

I never thought of English people as being Polish/Russian. Poles live in Poland and Russians live in Russia from what I know-I never thought of them as being 100% English. I don't think no less of 'em mind you,but I know they ain't English.Poles and Russians are Slavs and they have occassionally be raided by people from the East,whereas Attila the Hun probably couldn't have made it all the way over to England.Slavs are also probably a slightly different breed from English people-I for one think different location could imply different Breed .If they were English ,they'd BE from England-Poland/Russia is something Else,albeit good.Those nations are closer to the East and they all have some natural blood that matches Eastern people that's what I read somewhere.

[Hando]

I never thought of English people as being Polish/Russian. Poles live in Poland and Russians live in Russia from what I know-I never thought of them as being 100% English. I don't think no less of 'em mind you,but I know they ain't English.Poles and Russians are Slavs and they have occassionally be raided by people from the East,whereas Attila the Hun probably couldn't have made it all the way over to England.Slavs are also probably a slightly different breed from English people-I for one think different location could imply different Breed .If they were English ,they'd BE from England-Poland/Russia is something Else,albeit good.Those nations are closer to the East and they all have some natural blood that matches Eastern people that's what I read somewhere.

Attila didnt make it to Albion, but people with genes related to the Huns did.
For example, Queen Elizabeth is partly descended from Genghis Khan through the Romanian Prince Vlad Tepes....

[burto]

I never thought of English people as being Polish/Russian. Poles live in Poland and Russians live in Russia from what I know-I never thought of them as being 100% English.

I know that but my Aunt is 100% English and gets matches to those places! The question is why?

[Jim Honeychuck]

I know that but my Aunt is 100% English and gets matches to those places! The question is why?

Because there are hardly any English samples for her to match?

Jim