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  • Johnserrat
    replied
    Thanks R2-D2.

    It is hard to believe that our reclassification is based on a study published in 2002! Makes me even happier to have participated in this project.

    John

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  • vraatyah
    replied
    No, Finnila's work predates one by Herrnstadt. It reveals the place of old T2, T3 and T+9bpdel ("Bormann lineage") in the new T2 branch.

    Thank you for sharing the info about T4. I have the RFLP results for such sequences that place them into T2 (and I already mentioned this a year before in the topic on T subgroups prediction). Now I know more


    Valery

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  • R2-D2
    replied
    Originally posted by vraatyah
    to my knowledge, Finnila was the first who placed a bunch of Ts into one T2 haplogroup. So what does this "currently published work" reveal? Referring to it as a refinement of the phylogeny already known from complete sequencing would be more correct and unpretentious. If the participants reveal all their coding-region mutations, it'd be a great work on the Western Europe Ts.
    The paper is: Reduced-Median-Network Analysis of Complete Mitochondrial DNA Coding-Region Sequences for the Major African, Asian, and European Haplogroups by Herrnstadt et al 2002. Here's a link. It is because of coding region markers(11812 and 14233) listed in this paper on page 4 that are the reason many of us are being switched to hg T2. The T FGS Research Project is looking to expand on this and discover new subclades.
    Last edited by R2-D2; 23 February 2008, 03:32 PM.

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  • vraatyah
    replied
    Originally posted by R2-D2
    At this point, probably. Only because FTDNA's system is going off of the currently published work. Once this research is done then we will be sorted out into new subclades. Hopefully I will be able to add a letter onto my hg and lose my asterisk.

    to my knowledge, Finnila was the first who placed a bunch of Ts into one T2 haplogroup. So what does this "currently published work" reveal? Referring to it as a refinement of the phylogeny already known from complete sequencing would be more correct and unpretentious. If the participants reveal all their coding-region mutations, it'd be a great work on the Western Europe Ts.
    Last edited by vraatyah; 23 February 2008, 02:32 PM.

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  • R2-D2
    replied
    Originally posted by Johnserrat
    Anyone know what is happening with the T3 people? I'm just wondering if we are only going to be left with T1 and T2 at this point.

    John
    At this point, probably. Only because FTDNA's system is going off of the currently published work. Once this research is done then we will be sorted out into new subclades. Hopefully I will be able to add a letter onto my hg and lose my asterisk.

    Leave a comment:


  • Johnserrat
    replied
    Originally posted by R2-D2
    It looks like all of the T4 people are now T2a.
    Anyone know what is happening with the T3 people? I'm just wondering if we are only going to be left with T1 and T2 at this point.

    John

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  • R2-D2
    replied
    It looks like all of the T4 people are now T2a.

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  • Johnserrat
    replied
    I received my FGS results today and was, not surprisingly, changed from a T5 to a T2. I have 42 mutation from CRS. I have not yet had the time to figure out if they mean anything.

    John

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  • Bill Hurst
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi
    .....We'll probably have the most impressive haplogroup branch of any mtDNA haplogroup by the end of this year.
    Better hurry; we already have 120 K FGS results back.

    Bill Hurst

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  • R2-D2
    replied
    There are at least a couple of each subclade so far except for T1b and T1c.

    Lots of T1s and T2s though!

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  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by R2-D2
    Over 100 members!
    Just think of the kind of resolution and number of new subclades that will result from analyzing over 100 FGS results for T haplogroup members! We'll probably have the most impressive haplogroup branch of any mtDNA haplogroup by the end of this year.

    I'll be joining in a couple of months or so when I scrounge up the money.

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  • R2-D2
    replied
    Over 100 members!

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  • penguin
    replied
    It's not irrational - you just don't understand research. Pike is an academic (a good one, too), not a paid employee or layman volunteer. These studies will be published in reputable peer reviewed journals. That's real research, folks-it's why you're signing consent- the research has been thru the IRB process, which requires consent.

    If you want to subsidize the research or help by donating your DNa, go for it. It's important though everyone know all the facts, so everyone can decide for him/herself. You should be clear that theyre not doing it to give you info about your DNa , theyre doing it to advance research- fine goal, but theyre not doing you favors or being kind by donating their time.

    They won't be witholding the raw data by the way because it has medical implications!! If you implied that with your message, then youre wrong on that point also. They withhold it so no one will scoop them on their publication and beat them to it. It's just the way research works and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't make my raw data available until after I publish either. But also note raw data is avilable to all who ask once a study is published- medical implications or not (of course names are withheld). So don't think that this is compensation for your agreeing to participate.

    By the way, I probalby would hve particpted had they done it differently. Had the annoucement said somehting like the follwing, I would have had a hard time resisting and would hve helped. See if this looks different to you; it woujld be for me becasuse the folllowing is straight forward about wht they are doing:

    "Wer'e doing research on T haplogroup with intent to publish in acdemic journls and we re sking for your help. Grnt money is scarce and as you know the DNa tests are expensive. You can help us. If you want to get your own dna analyzed, you can be of great help to us if you give us those data and allow us to analyze them and publish then in an academic journl. In exchange for your help, as a small token of our appreciation, Family Tree DNa has kindly agreed to give you the bulk rate of 20% off wht it normlly costs to do the tests. The public will have access to the data following publiction; we will make sure you know how to find the data"

    Tht for me is being strightforwrd, and not implying they are doing me a favor by using my DNa. I think alot of people don't realize how valuable their DN is. My computer connection is dying- better send nd

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  • Johnserrat
    replied
    I agree with Bill as well.

    The analysis of the results, if they do have medical implications, may benefit the public as a whole. They also benefit the participants who have an interest in genetic genealogy and want to have the issue of the subclades clarified.

    When I was in undergrad, I frequently particpated in studies for little or no compensation. My children still participate in cognitive development research through a major university for which we receive free parking and the children a small toy. A little altruism is not a bad thing!

    Personally, I am happy that the organizers of this new project are willing to devote their time and effort to a project that has scientific merit but is unlikely to profit anyone in the short run.

    John

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  • fmoakes
    replied
    Thanks, Bill. Sometimes it is good to be proven wrong. I thought there would be no way to make a rational response to the irrational turn this thread just took.

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