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Hg T FGS Research Project

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  • Hg T FGS Research Project

    In case you missed it, there is a new research project that just started for haplogroup T. They are going to use full genomic sequences to look sort out and find new subclades! They are offering a discount on the FGS for hg T people. Check it out here!

  • #2
    I have also signed up already and hope that the other T5s do as well. Perhaps we can finally determine whether or not T5 is a legitimate subclade?

    John

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    • #3
      I wonder if FGS definitions would eliminate a lot of current subclades among all haplogroups. As long as I get another letter or number added on to my hg I'll be happy. Some geographic specificity would be nice too since T's migrated in four different directions.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Johnserrat
        I have also signed up already and hope that the other T5s do as well. Perhaps we can finally determine whether or not T5 is a legitimate subclade?

        John
        I'm a T5 and plan to join. Since ordering an FGS is a condition of joining, it'll probably be the spring before I join. That's about when I'll have the money to order the FGS and pay for it.

        Mike

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MMaddi
          I'm a T5 and plan to join. Since ordering an FGS is a condition of joining, it'll probably be the spring before I join. That's about when I'll have the money to order the FGS and pay for it.

          Mike
          Cool, we need to identify an Italian T.

          There are five T5s in the project out of 56 people so far. The members went up fast! There were just 12 when I got the e-mail the other day.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Johnserrat
            I have also signed up already and hope that the other T5s do as well. Perhaps we can finally determine whether or not T5 is a legitimate subclade?

            John
            John Scott has posted the first 151 FGS that have been submitted to Gen Bank. (http://tinyurl.com/yyzgaa - under mtDNA).
            The one T2 is my wife's that was HVR1 - T5 until the FGS results were posted.
            We have another HVR1 - T5 on the OAK Surname Project. He will be joining the mtHg T FGS Project in early February. I applaud FTDNA for the sizable $ break they are offering to expedite this process.
            We, also need to encourage everyone to submit their FGS results to Gen Bank.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fmoakes
              John Scott has posted the first 151 FGS that have been submitted to Gen Bank. (http://tinyurl.com/yyzgaa - under mtDNA).
              The one T2 is my wife's that was HVR1 - T5 until the FGS results were posted.
              We have another HVR1 - T5 on the OAK Surname Project. He will be joining the mtHg T FGS Project in early February. I applaud FTDNA for the sizable $ break they are offering to expedite this process.
              We, also need to encourage everyone to submit their FGS results to Gen Bank.
              Will your wife be joining the new project as well? The more HVR1 T5s participate, the better our chances of having meaningful results!

              I will certainly submit my FGS results to Genebank once I receive them.

              John

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Johnserrat
                Will your wife be joining the new project as well? The more HVR1 T5s participate, the better our chances of having meaningful results!

                I will certainly submit my FGS results to Genebank once I receive them.

                John
                Yes, she has joined.
                Floyd

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                • #9
                  I am T5, but will not be joining the project. I do not want to keep giving away my DNa for free. I am a resercher myself (different field) and know about the kinds of compenstion that myself and my colleagues provide to research subjects. These researchers are getting away with murder by only providing a 100 dollar discount and making subjects pay for a test!

                  Note also that it's presented as a "project" as if it were like any other project on family tree dna, but in the fine print they make it clear they will not disseminte the FGS sequences until after THEY publish. Theyre not granting any special favors by making the data available after publication since it's availble to the entire world once a journal article is published as a matter of protocol; this is not compenstion in exchange for agreeing to participate.

                  i'm all for T research, but not this way. I'll hold out for the highest bidder for my dna or for full access to the data as it comes in so I can do my own stats on it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by penguin
                    I am T5, but will not be joining the project. I do not want to keep giving away my DNa for free. I am a resercher myself (different field) and know about the kinds of compenstion that myself and my colleagues provide to research subjects. These researchers are getting away with murder by only providing a 100 dollar discount and making subjects pay for a test!

                    Note also that it's presented as a "project" as if it were like any other project on family tree dna, but in the fine print they make it clear they will not disseminte the FGS sequences until after THEY publish. Theyre not granting any special favors by making the data available after publication since it's availble to the entire world once a journal article is published as a matter of protocol; this is not compenstion in exchange for agreeing to participate.

                    i'm all for T research, but not this way. I'll hold out for the highest bidder for my dna or for full access to the data as it comes in so I can do my own stats on it.
                    Hi Penguin,

                    A few questions. Do you understand that the discount for the FGS tests is being provided by FTDNA, a company in business to make a profit? Do you understand that the administrators of the project are not employees of FTDNA and are not compensated for their efforts?

                    I imagine that the research done in your field is being done by paid researchers and that they pay test subjects with grants from the government. Oh, wait, that's taxpayer money. My money! That's fine, but do you expect the taxpayers to pay for your DNA test? Or do you expect FTDNA to do your tests for free? Or do you expect the volunteer administrators to pay for your tests?

                    As for not disseminating the FGS results until after the research is complete, do you understand that since potentially there are medical implications to coding-region mutations, those are not published on any projects' webpages? You are not going to find FGS results from any project unless those are transmitted to GenBank by the individual - or in a few cases listed in MitoSearch or Charles Kerchner's website. In the normal situation, the project administrator doesn't have access to the FGS results unless the participant specifically makes the results available to the administrator. FTDNA asks permission to use the results for scientific purposes, but so far no papers have come forth.

                    There are probably as many ways of dealing with FGS research as there are haplogroups. As the K Project Administrator, I'm following a different path than that of the T project. But we are working toward similar goals. Also, I don't pay for the FGS tests and nobody pays me.

                    Good luck on holding out for the highest bidder.

                    Bill Hurst

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                    • #11
                      Thanks, Bill. Sometimes it is good to be proven wrong. I thought there would be no way to make a rational response to the irrational turn this thread just took.

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                      • #12
                        I agree with Bill as well.

                        The analysis of the results, if they do have medical implications, may benefit the public as a whole. They also benefit the participants who have an interest in genetic genealogy and want to have the issue of the subclades clarified.

                        When I was in undergrad, I frequently particpated in studies for little or no compensation. My children still participate in cognitive development research through a major university for which we receive free parking and the children a small toy. A little altruism is not a bad thing!

                        Personally, I am happy that the organizers of this new project are willing to devote their time and effort to a project that has scientific merit but is unlikely to profit anyone in the short run.

                        John

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                        • #13
                          It's not irrational - you just don't understand research. Pike is an academic (a good one, too), not a paid employee or layman volunteer. These studies will be published in reputable peer reviewed journals. That's real research, folks-it's why you're signing consent- the research has been thru the IRB process, which requires consent.

                          If you want to subsidize the research or help by donating your DNa, go for it. It's important though everyone know all the facts, so everyone can decide for him/herself. You should be clear that theyre not doing it to give you info about your DNa , theyre doing it to advance research- fine goal, but theyre not doing you favors or being kind by donating their time.

                          They won't be witholding the raw data by the way because it has medical implications!! If you implied that with your message, then youre wrong on that point also. They withhold it so no one will scoop them on their publication and beat them to it. It's just the way research works and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't make my raw data available until after I publish either. But also note raw data is avilable to all who ask once a study is published- medical implications or not (of course names are withheld). So don't think that this is compensation for your agreeing to participate.

                          By the way, I probalby would hve particpted had they done it differently. Had the annoucement said somehting like the follwing, I would have had a hard time resisting and would hve helped. See if this looks different to you; it woujld be for me becasuse the folllowing is straight forward about wht they are doing:

                          "Wer'e doing research on T haplogroup with intent to publish in acdemic journls and we re sking for your help. Grnt money is scarce and as you know the DNa tests are expensive. You can help us. If you want to get your own dna analyzed, you can be of great help to us if you give us those data and allow us to analyze them and publish then in an academic journl. In exchange for your help, as a small token of our appreciation, Family Tree DNa has kindly agreed to give you the bulk rate of 20% off wht it normlly costs to do the tests. The public will have access to the data following publiction; we will make sure you know how to find the data"

                          Tht for me is being strightforwrd, and not implying they are doing me a favor by using my DNa. I think alot of people don't realize how valuable their DN is. My computer connection is dying- better send nd

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                          • #14
                            Over 100 members!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by R2-D2
                              Over 100 members!
                              Just think of the kind of resolution and number of new subclades that will result from analyzing over 100 FGS results for T haplogroup members! We'll probably have the most impressive haplogroup branch of any mtDNA haplogroup by the end of this year.

                              I'll be joining in a couple of months or so when I scrounge up the money.

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