R1b Haplotype 35 In The British Isles

[Arch Yeomans]

some people might have just ran to the Hills. not everyone was a Gunning knight..

Dang!!! I wanted to be a knight in shining armour !! Anyway, I guess my surname heritage could be associated with the infamous war bow archer or knight killer of the Medieval Period. , or maybe desk jockey in the U.S. Navy

[GregKiroKH]

Have you considered testing at Ethnoancestry for the S-series? It sounds like there's a good chance you are S21+.

Mike

Yep, I was hoping not to be at square one again with R1b1c9*. I thought the FTDNA deep clade SNP would be more complete. I have for sometime expected historical connections related to S21+. I wonder though what new test are being planned for 2007. And it came down to planning my Disney vacation in Dec. 2007 or getting the S-series test after my full mtDNA test or maybe both. I decided to wait and see what will happen in 2007.

[MMaddi]

I have 460 = 10 and 390 = 23 and 492 =13. I took the FTDNA deep clade test, and ended up "R1b1c?" with a bunch of negatives. I can remember when all Y-DNA of human males were the same. So, I think we are just beginning to understand how to classify the Y-DNA. I hate this not knowing (Scotty TOS). Still, we must learn to wait some times.

Have you considered testing at Ethnoancestry for the S-series? It sounds like there's a good chance you are S21+.

Mike

[GregKiroKH]

I have 460 = 10 and 390 = 23 and 492 =13. I took the FTDNA deep clade test, and ended up "R1b1c?" with a bunch of negatives. I can remember when all Y-DNA of human males were the same. So, I think we are just beginning to understand how to classify the Y-DNA. I hate this not knowing (Scotty TOS). Still, we must learn to wait some times.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply !
You`re correct, my ysearch ID is AUXRP

Eventhough i`ve learned a lot about Y-DNA these past months
since July 2006, i`m still new ... and internet probably does
not tell you everything.. and is not always correct. so i`m still learning
to work with comparing markers ... and understanding what it`s about.

Indeed i`m looking for my Ancestral Origins and that`s also why
i`m interested in knowing more about the cluster you were refering to.

In any case its good to know that there is probably that DYS#390 mutated
from 23 to 24, in my case apparently.

I also compared all your Y-STR markers with those i have, and there are
a lot of simularities.

I just started scratching the surface looking into all this data, and trying to collect as much information as i can so i can understand it, but it`ll take a while before i have enough to chew on.

But you`ve already been very helpfull,
thank you very much.

See Ya later,
Kind Regards, Neo *

[MMaddi]

Neo Lithic,

I found another posting by you in this thread back in September, where you listed your ysearch ID. I see that it's AUXRP.

Looking in my spreadsheet, I have you listed as a potential member of the cluster. I don't have you as definite because of your 390=24, but as I mentioned in my previous posting, that may be a mutation in your paternal line from 23. If that's the case, then you're probably a member of the cluster.

Mike

[MMaddi]

Hello everyone,

Currently FTDNA is still testing the last 2 SNP`s (M37 and SRY 2627)
They already confirmed that i`m R1b1c, but the question is
what comes after the C. I reacon i`ll eventually end up being R1b1c*
because FTDNA doesn`t look for the S21 of S28 mutation.
But on the Forum i discovered some messages telling about a possible
indicator for R1b1c9 which could be found in the Y=STR DYS# Values.
Most people belonging to R1b1c9 have DYS#492=13 and DYS#425=0 ,
and these are exactly the same values i have.

It`s alot of fun trying to figure out what all this information means,
but it`s easier said then done. If i would decide to let EA test my final
SNP markers to confirm if i am R1b1c9 or 10 then i would be sure...
but i still would be confused if any of my ancestors had a Celtic background
long ago. As far as I`ve come to understand it, being Celtic isn`t specifically something which is dependent upon the correct DNA Haplotype, right ?

Okey.. below you`ll find my Y-STR DYS Marker Values, all 67 ...
Perhaps someone could give me some more information ? we`ll see

See Ya Later,
Neo

DYS# A
393 13
390 24
19 14
391 11
385a 11
385b 14
426 12
388 12
439 11
389-1 13
392 13
389-2 29
458 17
459a 9
459b 10
455 11
454 11
447 24
437 14
448 19
449 30
464a 16
464b 16
464c 16
464d 16
460 10
H4 11
YCAII a 19
YCAII b 23
456 15
607 15
576 19
570 17
CDYa 38
CDYb 38
442 11
438 13
425 0
444 12
446 13
531 11
578 9
395S1a 15
395S1b 16
590 8
537 10
641 10
472 8
406S1 10
511 11
413a 23
413b 23
557 16
594 10
436 12
490 12
534 16
450 8
481 22
520 20
617 12
568 11
487 14
572 11
640 11
492 13
565 12

To answer your question about Celtic background first, EA believes that a S21+ result would indicate northern European (the area where the Dutch, Germans, Danish and Norwegians now live) deep ancestry and rule out Celtic ancestry. However, EA believes that S28+ indicates deep ancestry among the La Tene Celts of central Europe. This is a different Celtic group than the ones who settled in the British Isles. These theories are not written in stone and may change as results are gotten from more people with ancestry from throughout Europe.

Just a slight correction about the "null 425" value. It's not the case that most S21+ haplotypes are null 425. If you look at the ysearch database of the R1b project, only about 3% of all R1b's have null 425. Looking at the known S21+'s, the figure is slightly higher, about 5%.

I too am 492=13 and null 425 and have tested S21+. Since I received my 67 marker upgrade results in August and found I have null 425, I've been investigating what seems to be an S21+ cluster with null 425. So far only myself and another member of this cluster have tested S21+, but it seems there are at least 20 paternal lines in the ysearch database involved in this cluster. There is wide geographical distribution for the ancestry of the cluster members - England, France, Belgium, Germany and Italy for sure. The indications are that it is at least 2,000 years old and possibly as old as 4-5,000 years. It's believed that all its members are S21+.

The key marker values for this cluster are:
390=23
447=24
460=10
425=null
492=13

Leaving aside 425, all those values are off from the general R1b modal. Looking at your results, the only one you differ on is 390, where you have 24, the general R1b modal. I think there's a good chance that you're a member of this cluster and your 390 has just mutated from the cluster value.

Right now I'm awaiting the results for two of the new advanced tests at FTDNA - DYF371x and DYF408, which are both in the P5 palindromic region of the y chromosome. DYS425 is one of the two markers associated with DYF371 in the P5 region. It's possible the results of these tests will explain why I have a null 425. Another S21+ with null 425, but not a member of this cluster, is also awaiting results for these tests, so we can compare and see if there are any differences. It is possible that there will be no ready explanation for the null 425 from these tests. That brings up the possibility that there is a SNP causing the null 425 result in some S21+'s, which would mean further research to look for it. Of course, that would define a new subclade of R1b1c9.

I thought you would be interested in knowning a few of the details. Have you uploaded your full 67 marker results to ysearch? If so, what's your ID? If you haven't uploaded to ysearch, please do, so I can find your haplotype and add it to my spreadsheet of cluster members.

Mike Maddi

My 67 DYS# Markers

Hello everyone,

Currently FTDNA is still testing the last 2 SNP`s (M37 and SRY 2627)
They already confirmed that i`m R1b1c, but the question is
what comes after the C. I reacon i`ll eventually end up being R1b1c*
because FTDNA doesn`t look for the S21 of S28 mutation.
But on the Forum i discovered some messages telling about a possible
indicator for R1b1c9 which could be found in the Y=STR DYS# Values.
Most people belonging to R1b1c9 have DYS#492=13 and DYS#425=0 ,
and these are exactly the same values i have.

It`s alot of fun trying to figure out what all this information means,
but it`s easier said then done. If i would decide to let EA test my final
SNP markers to confirm if i am R1b1c9 or 10 then i would be sure...
but i still would be confused if any of my ancestors had a Celtic background
long ago. As far as I`ve come to understand it, being Celtic isn`t specifically something which is dependent upon the correct DNA Haplotype, right ?

Okey.. below you`ll find my Y-STR DYS Marker Values, all 67 ...
Perhaps someone could give me some more information ? we`ll see

See Ya Later,
Neo

DYS# A
393 13
390 24
19 14
391 11
385a 11
385b 14
426 12
388 12
439 11
389-1 13
392 13
389-2 29
458 17
459a 9
459b 10
455 11
454 11
447 24
437 14
448 19
449 30
464a 16
464b 16
464c 16
464d 16
460 10
H4 11
YCAII a 19
YCAII b 23
456 15
607 15
576 19
570 17
CDYa 38
CDYb 38
442 11
438 13
425 0
444 12
446 13
531 11
578 9
395S1a 15
395S1b 16
590 8
537 10
641 10
472 8
406S1 10
511 11
413a 23
413b 23
557 16
594 10
436 12
490 12
534 16
450 8
481 22
520 20
617 12
568 11
487 14
572 11
640 11
492 13
565 12

[scotdna]

Anyone have any region thoughts about these markers...
13 25 14 12 11 14 11 12 11 13 13 29 FTDna sequence

FTDna predicts R1b1, Whit Athey 44-R1b /34-Q on 24 markers. (13 - 25 are being retested)
deepSNP won't be in for 2 months.

Scot

[lgmayka]

It does look like there is a chance that my
ancestor came from The British Isles,
so i will be compairing hundreds of people
to my STR Markers when i have all 67 markers.

We're very happy to hear from you, but frankly, your 12 markers are much too common to draw conclusions from. Look all the way down your list of matches in Ysearch:

http://www.ysearch.org/search_results.asp?uid=AUXRP&min_markers=12&mismatch_type=absolute&mismatches_max=0

Yes, you match plenty of British Isles people, because they are so plentiful in the database, but you also match Poles and Puerto Ricans.

In other words, the additional markers you ordered are essential in order to place your deep ancestry. We'll be looking forward to seeing them.

Hello everyone,

First of all I`d like to say that I do hope you guys don`t mind me
posting some info, eventhough i`m actually from Holland.

It`s mainly because after searching on the web for such a long time
i suddenly stumbled upon your stories, and realized the simularities
between your 12 markers and mine are remarkable. I though to myself :"Every tiny bit of information could be helpful" , so that is the reason why i decided to post my message

My Y-DNA Genetic STR Markers > www.ysearch.org ID: AUXRP
At this moment only 12 markers, but they`re now testing all 67 markers
so... i should have them upcoming October.

My Allele Counts
DYS 393 : 13
DYS 390 : 24
DYS 19 : 14
DYS 391 : 11
DYS 385a : 11
DYS 385b : 14
DYS 426 : 12
DYS 388 : 12
DYS 439 : 11
DYS 389i : 13
DYS 392 : 13
DYS 389ii : 29

It does look like there is a chance that my
ancestor came from The British Isles,
so i will be compairing hundreds of people
to my STR Markers when i have all 67 markers.

It would be awesome if i do have a Celtic origin,
FTDNA prediction says i`m probably a R1b1c

Hopefully i`ll discover more info in the near future
cause I`d love to know where my ancestor came from.

Thanks for your time,
And good luck to you all !

Kind Regards from Holland,
Wilbert Verboekend {South Holland}

[Stevo]

Hello again,
I found I was Anglo-Saxon R1b, which is marked by DYS390: 23, and DYS391: 11..

Hey! It's about time you showed up again!

You know, we have our own R1b Forum. Please come on over there and post some.

Have you upgraded to 37 markers or had an SNP test yet?

Hello again,
I found I was Anglo-Saxon R1b, which is marked by DYS390: 23, and DYS391: 11..

[Stevo]

I did my Y-chromosome DNA test in the Genographic Project and came up with these results of the R1b Haplogroup. I believe I found a French root, and a Germanic/Scandinavian root. Can anyone help me find my origins?

393=13
19=15
391=11
439=11
389-1=13
389-2=16
388=12
390=23
426=12
385a=11
385b=12
392=13

Well, what caught my eye right away was your 23 repeats at 390. That could be an indication that you belong to the R1b-Frisian modal haplotype (a North Sea haplotype common also in Denmark).

Go to this web site, check out the R1b chart there, and compare your values to the different R1b modals. See which of them fits your markers most closely.

You are probably going to need to upgrade to at least 37 markers and do a deep SNP, as well, to be sure, but checking that chart is a good start.

I match the Frisian and Norwegian modals most closely myself, but I am still waiting on markers 26-37, and I also need to do the deep SNP thing.

Good luck, brother, and welcome!

Oops! I just noticed that your post was from back in March! You probably know all this stuff by now.

The Nordic & Celtic DNA Project

I have developed a project that is open to both men and women of Nordic and of Celtic Iberian origins. This project is designed to show evidence of deep ancestral patterns found within Celtic Iberians and Scandinavian settlements throughout Europe.

If you follow the steps below - it shouldn't cost you anything.

How to Join the Nordic-Celtic Project

Current Family Tree DNA Customers: Go to your Family Tree DNA personal page and click on the blue icon labelled "Join." (This is next to your name and kit number, at the top of the page.) This will bring you to a page with the title "Group Join." Type "Nordic-Celtic" in the search engine and click to go to a page which will allow you to join the Nordic-Celtic Project.

Best Regards,
John

Website: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Nordic-Celtic