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  • Quick TMRCA question

    I'm sure this is somewhere in the hundreds of forum postings, and I should know this by now, but can someone give me a rough estimate of tmrca for a 30/37 match (GD = 7)?

    FTDNA states the following: "30/37 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person within thousands of years. You are probably even in different Haplogroups on the Phylogenetic tree of Homo Sapiens." I question this because obviously two people can mismatch by that much and still be in the same haplogroup.

    Thanks,

    Vinnie

  • #2
    I'd like to know since my closest match (period!) in the entire data base beyond 12 markers is 4-with most being way beyond six including those in my haplogroup. There are some in other Haplogroups who are closer than the ones within my own. Haplogroups are identified how? And is it possible that the formula needs to be changed based on the obvious? It bears a certain logic that I do not comprehend.

    Comment


    • #3
      Once you learn to use it, this tool is quite handy: http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility.html

      If you give me the two Y-search ID's you are comparing, I can give you the result quite quickly.

      The two cases must be in the same haplogroup. If not, marker matches will be like "sharp teeth" and "brown fur," and you will be putting cats, dogs, bears, and whatever into a meaningless matching category.

      Jim

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jim Honeychuck
        Once you learn to use it, this tool is quite handy: http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility.html

        If you give me the two Y-search ID's you are comparing, I can give you the result quite quickly.

        The two cases must be in the same haplogroup. If not, marker matches will be like "sharp teeth" and "brown fur," and you will be putting cats, dogs, bears, and whatever into a meaningless matching category.

        Jim
        Jim,

        I'm cxq9r and looking at 9r9hc, a6v7n, and w8wd8. Appreciate it!

        Vinnie

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Vinnie.

          CXQ9R and 9R9HC: 960 years

          CXQ9R and A6V7N: 1,110 years

          CXQ9R and W8WD8: 1,110 years

          How come you have relative in Wells England? c.1047 A.D., a Crusader?

          Jim

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jim Honeychuck
            Hi Vinnie.

            CXQ9R and 9R9HC: 960 years

            CXQ9R and A6V7N: 1,110 years

            CXQ9R and W8WD8: 1,110 years

            How come you have relative in Wells England? c.1047 A.D., a Crusader?

            Jim
            Jim,

            Well, that's an interesting hypothesis I hadn't thought of. If you care to expand on that idea, feel free. I was originally thinking along the lines of either ancient Albanian-related settlement or 16th cent Albanian refugee settlement; notice that the Italian says his ancestral village was founded by them, and my grandfather's village is not too far from the Plain of the Albanians in west-central Sicily. But the closeness of the match to Brits really threw me. Then add the fact that my grandfather's surname is an Italian variant of known medieval French and Spanish Jewish surnames, and I almost give up trying to figure this one out...But thanks very much for your help!

            Vinnie

            P.S. Brit crusader moving through Italy??? I do know that one of my relatives was one of Garibaldi's "1000" involved with the unification of Sicily to Italy.
            Last edited by vinnie; 5 December 2007, 03:23 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Vinnie,

              I just glanced at that Ysearch entry. Not Wells England, but the surname Wells in England.

              Wells is an English name most strongly associated with where the Saxons ruled. http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/Surnames.aspx

              So if it wasn't an Englishman who went to Sicily, maybe it was a German.

              Jim

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jim Honeychuck
                Vinnie,

                I just glanced at that Ysearch entry. Not Wells England, but the surname Wells in England.

                Wells is an English name most strongly associated with where the Saxons ruled. http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/Surnames.aspx

                So if it wasn't an Englishman who went to Sicily, maybe it was a German.

                Jim
                Jim, couldn't get the link to work. But how are these for simple, speculative scenarios, given what I've seen posted on the haplogroup. Ancient Roman soldier/slave of proto-Albanian origin (Thracian?) goes to Britain, has a descendant (possibly crusader) who ends up in Sicily. Or taking into account the surname issue (I do have some slightly more distant matches from France as well), ancient Roman soldier/slave of same origin goes to France, one descendant ends up in Britain, another in Sicily. Given the relatively close matches in Britain, I'm more hesitant now to accept a direct Balkan-Sicily scenario. But can you (or anyone else reading this) think of one that would also take into account the Brit matches?
                Last edited by vinnie; 5 December 2007, 09:58 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zaru
                  I'd like to know since my closest match (period!) in the entire data base beyond 12 markers is 4-with most being way beyond six including those in my haplogroup. There are some in other Haplogroups who are closer than the ones within my own. Haplogroups are identified how? And is it possible that the formula needs to be changed based on the obvious? It bears a certain logic that I do not comprehend.
                  Hi Zaru,

                  Y haplogroups are defined by SNPs, although FTDNA can often predict haplogroups based on haplotypes because they know that values for certain markers (or more precisely, combinations of marker values) are more likely to occur in one haplogroup than another. You should limit your comparisons to only those haplotypes that belong to your own haplogroup, even if haplotypes in other haplogroups are technically closer to you in genetic distance. When I first started posting in this forum, I quickly raised the problem of basing tmrca analyses simply on gd, particularly because of different mutation rates for various markers, but if I remember correctly, I couldn't get anyone in the forum to confirm that. Now I believe everyone agrees that gd alone is not enough on which to make tmrca analyses. As to why FTDNA hasn't updated there tmrca descriptions, maybe it's because they've been working on so many other improvements that they haven't gotten around to it.

                  Vinnie

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vinnie
                    Jim, couldn't get the link to work. But how are these for simple, speculative scenarios, given what I've seen posted on the haplogroup. Ancient Roman soldier/slave of proto-Albanian origin (Thracian?) goes to Britain, has a descendant (possibly crusader) who ends up in Sicily. Or taking into account the surname issue (I do have some slightly more distant matches from France as well), ancient Roman soldier/slave of same origin goes to France, one descendant ends up in Britain, another in Sicily. Given the relatively close matches in Britain, I'm more hesitant now to accept a direct Balkan-Sicily scenario. But can you (or anyone else reading this) think of one that would also take into account the Brit matches?
                    Is your Albanian connection by paper or by DNA?

                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jim Honeychuck
                      Is your Albanian connection by paper or by DNA?

                      Jim
                      DNA - the epicenter of E3b1a2 is Kosova. The Kosovar Albanians and the Albanians have the two highest proportions of this haplogroup in the world. A lot of the discussion lately among the E3b people is how the hg ended up in Britain, so I was using some of their postulations to form my hypothesis.
                      Last edited by vinnie; 6 December 2007, 07:38 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vinnie
                        DNA - the epicenter of E3b1a2 is Kosova. The Kosovar Albanians and the Albanians have the two highest proportions of this haplogroup in the world. A lot of the discussion lately among the E3b people is how the hg ended up in Britain, so I was using some of their postulations to form my hypothesis.
                        There's been too much moving around over the centuries. Sounds like what your research needs is a perfect match or two.

                        Jim

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