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  • Got DNA Tribes results & need help understanding them.

    I ended up having my mom take the DNA Tribes test and we just got the results, but I'm not sure that I understand them, so need this forum's expertise - once again (sorry!) to help me out here.

    DNA Tribes Results:
    HIGH RESOLUTION NATIVE POPULATION
    Ashkenzai (Budapest, Hungary) (0.85) MLI 256.95
    Marche, Italy (0.97) MLI 223.82
    Pomerania-Kujawy, Northern Poland (0.95) MLI 195.08
    Finland (0.96) MLI 194.49
    Slovenia (0.88) MLI 193.51
    Estonia (0.9) MLI 190.63
    Russia (0.93) MLI 184.29
    Basque (Spain) (0.92) MLI 172.41
    Campania, Italy (0.96) MLI 159.53
    Budapest, Hungary (0.85) MLI 151.45
    Austria (0.79) MLI 147.80
    Finland (0.91) MLI 141.29
    Northeast Spain (0.84) MLI 140.78
    Lille, France (0.87) MLI 137.79
    Finland (0.94) MLI 136.53
    Veneto, Italy (0.87) MLI 127.31
    Umbria, Italy (0.97) MLI 126.75
    Albanian (0.93) MLI 124.74
    Toulouse, France (0.84) MLI 111.75
    Central Portugal (0.91) MLI 105.29

    HIGH RESOLUTION GLOBAL POPULATION
    Tatar (Poland) (0.94) MLI 270.39
    Ashkenazi (Budapest, Hungary) (0.85) MLI 256.95
    Marche, Italy (0.97) MLI 223.82
    Pomerania-Kujawy, Poland (0.95) MLI 195.08
    Finland (0.96) MLI 194.49
    Slovenia (0.88) MLI 193.51
    Estonia (0.9) MLI 190.63
    Russia (0.93) MLI 184.29
    Basque, Spain (0.92) MLI 172.41
    Campania, Italy (0.96) MLI 159.53
    Budapest, Hungary (0.85) MLI 151.45
    Austria (0.79) MLI 147.80
    Finland (0.91) 141.29
    Northeast spain (0.84) MLI 140.78
    Lille, France (0.87) MLI 137.79
    Finland (0.94) MLI 136.53
    Brazil (0.95) MLI 135.60
    Ashkenazi, (Israel) (0.94) MLI 127.68
    Veneto, Italy (0.87) MLI 127.31
    Umbria, Italy (0.97) MLI 126.75

    HIGH RESOLUTION WORLD REGION
    Finno-Ugrian (0.95) MLI 124.74
    Eastern Europe (0.84) MLI 75.06
    Mediterranean (0.87) MLI 58.23
    Northwest European (0.75) MLI 46.00
    Aia Minor (0.84) MLI 22.91
    Mongolian (0.56) MLI 4.98
    Mestizo (0.21) MLI 1.79
    North India (0.15) MLI 1.74
    Arabian (0.18) MLI 1.68
    India (0.09) MLI 1.12
    Australian (0.1) MLI 0.97
    North African (0.04) MLI 0.40
    plus a few others but so small I can't even read the #'s and don't think
    they're of much significance.

    Sorry to ramble & put all these on, but wasn't sure what would be significant.
    It seems to me after reading the other scores on the forum that mine seem kind of low? Or I just don't understand how to figure them out.

    Also - the Italy and France countries have thrown me for a loop...are we
    talking results from way-way-way back ancestry like the Romans or something? I can understand the Russian, Hungarian listings as my grandparents were Ruthenian, Czech, Hungarian. I had my 84 year old mother tested thinking we could get a better picture through her dna by way
    of my grandparents.

    As you can tell, I need help to interpret these results so would appreciate
    anything this forum can tell me about my results. My MTDNA haplogroup is N*, which is old and not much information out there on it. I was hoping the Tribes test would be able to zero in on some additional information on my
    families background.

    Anybody? Please? Thanks! Marcia

  • #2
    Marcia,

    Your scores are quite strong, much stronger than mine.

    I also have some Ruthenian ancestors, and like you I got matches in Italy despite having no Italian ancestry. I assume that is a reflection of Roman ancestry in Romania, where the Vlachs or Wallachians in northern Slovakia and southern Poland came from.

    Pomerania-Kujawy is my strongest European match. Chances are you have some Polish ancestry, as I do.

    If you have no known ancestry from southwest France or the Basque country, then possibly you have an ancestor from Britain or Ireland. Most of their DNA came from Iberia.

    I also got a Polish Tatar match, but frankly the composition of that group consists of a lot of things.

    Jim

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Marcia S.
      I ended up having my mom take the DNA Tribes test and we just got the results, but I'm not sure that I understand them, so need this forum's expertise - once again (sorry!) to help me out here.

      DNA Tribes Results:
      HIGH RESOLUTION NATIVE POPULATION
      Ashkenzai (Budapest, Hungary) (0.85) MLI 256.95
      Pomerania-Kujawy, Northern Poland (0.95) MLI 195.08
      Finland (0.96) MLI 194.49
      Slovenia (0.88) MLI 193.51
      Estonia (0.9) MLI 190.63
      Russia (0.93) MLI 184.29
      Budapest, Hungary (0.85) MLI 151.45


      HIGH RESOLUTION GLOBAL POPULATION
      Tatar (Poland) (0.94) MLI 270.39


      HIGH RESOLUTION WORLD REGION
      Finno-Ugrian (0.95) MLI 124.74
      Eastern Europe (0.84) MLI 75.06

      I can understand the Russian, Hungarian listings as my grandparents were Ruthenian, Czech, Hungarian. I had my 84 year old mother tested thinking we could get a better picture through her dna by way
      of my grandparents.

      I was hoping the Tribes test would be able to zero in on some additional information on my
      families background.

      Anybody? Please? Thanks! Marcia
      Marcia:

      I have snipped out the parts of your posting which, in my opinion, are not relevant. There will be spurious random convergence "matches" that are of no consequence. They can be safely ignored if you know your grandparent's ancestry. I removed out all the Iberian and Arab results from my data and was left with what appeared to dovetail nicely with the facts.

      In essence, is this not really just confirming what you really know? This database only has a selected set of reference populations to compare with. The real problem is with those who don't know their genealogy, or who are a mixture of many groups such that combining the maternal and paternal autosomal alleles is going to give wildly unpredictable results, and people are either left confused or pick and chose the ones that confirm their hopes or expectations.

      In general people expect more of this test than it can deliver. The markers are few in number and were selected for their use in forensics to identify individuals - not populations. Hence all results need to be interpreted with caution.

      In your case, if the data is valid, then it is telling you that your mother's ancestry is largely Eastern European with possible connections further north to the Baltic rather than south to the Mediterranean. Even then this is just one data source which needs to be compared with the geneaogical and historical information relevant to the areas where your mother's paternal and maternal ancestors lived. Not sure that you have really learned anything here due to wide margins of error and other factors - it is really only a "recreational" test. Y-DNA and mtDNA when probed to the fullest extent harbor a great deal more useful information, particularly if you test that of cousins as far back as you can go (or afford).

      DKF.

      Comment


      • #4
        Marcia,

        That is the strongest criticism I have seen DFK level at the DNA Tribes test.

        I agree with him that there can be some meaningless convergence of scores, although unlike him I'm just speaking from my experience with the test results and not from a scientific background.

        But if you read the DNA Tribes site I think you will see that the company recognizes no such thing as random convergence in their matches. It says that matches are real but could be ancient.

        David has snipped out your Italian matches. I have never found an autosomal DNA study of Ruthenians, so I can't say for sure whether they have any Italian ancestry or not. It's just one of the theories about them: http://lemko.org/magura/scholar/adamX.html

        And if you've ever seen the rough-and-tumble Rusyn message board at Yahoo Groups, you will know why I'm not advocating any position one way or the other on that subject.

        Regards,

        Jim

        Comment


        • #5
          Need Help With Mine, too.

          I need help with mine, too. I am really puzzled by this. I have a number of ancestors from the Jamestown and Massachusetts colonies and no recent immigrant ancestors - most recent I can find was born around 1800 in England. I have no known Turkish, Arab, East European, Italian, Portugese or Spanish ancestry. I have one possible (not confirmed) ancestor who would have been a French Jew who came over in 1631. Many of my ancestors had Scottish surnames and most of the rest had English surnames with some French (Hugenot) and a couple of Irish surnames.

          Also, would these results exclude the possiblity of Native American ancestry - I have always heard rumors that I have Native American ancestry but I have never been able to confirm it. Here are my results:

          My Native Populations Scores:

          Aegean Region, Turkey (0.95) 91.89
          Egypt (0.9) 83.01
          Turkey (0.9) 66.62
          Turkey (0.89) 59.50
          Milan, Italy (0.73 ) 56.01
          Tuscany, Italy (0.65) 51.37
          United Arab Emirates (0.8) 35.98
          Campania, Italy (0.75) 27.51
          Northeast, Italy (0.79) 24.56
          Italy (0.67) 24.52
          Duzce, Turkey (0.66) 21.74
          Arab (Israel) (0.63) 20.62
          Northern Greece (0.64) 20.52
          Czech Republic (0.53) 20.20
          Calabria, Italy (0.64) 19.91
          Lodz, Poland (0.54) 19.90
          Northeast Spain (0.51) 19.04
          Turkey (0.71) 17.45
          Naga (India) (0.23) 16.98
          Turkey (0.69) 16.79


          My Global Population Matches:

          Aegean Region, Turkey (0.95) 91.89
          Egypt (0.9) 83.01
          Turkey (0.9) 66.62
          Turkey (0.89) 59.50
          Milan, Italy (0.73) 56.01
          Tuscany, Italy (0.65) 51.37
          Jewish (Israel) (0.81) 42.57
          Buenos Aires, Argentina (0.95) 41.03
          United Arab Emirates (0.8) 35.98
          Campania, Italy (0.75) 27.51
          Northeast, Italy (0.79) 24.56
          Italy (0.67) 24.52
          European-Aboriginal (mixed) (Southeast Australia) (0.75) 24.43
          European-Aboriginal (mixed) (New South Wales, Australia) (0.71) 23.04
          European-Aboriginal (mixed) (Riverine Region, Australia) (0.71) 22.09
          Caucasian (Maine, USA) (0.62) 21.87
          Duzce, Turkey (0.66) 21.74
          Arab (Israel) (0.63) 20.62
          Northern Greece (0.64) 20.52
          Czech Republic (0.53) 20.20

          My World Region Matches:

          Asia Minor (0.77) 16.74
          Mediterranean (0.54) 11.92
          Eastern European (0.44) 9.14
          Northwest European (0.39) 7.92
          Arabian (0.51) 7.78
          Finno-Ugrarian (0.43) 6.04
          Northern India (0.21) 2.28
          Mestizo (0.16) 1.50
          Mongolian (0.12) 0.92
          North African (0.06) 0.62
          Indian (0.04) 0.53
          Indian Tribal (0.04) 0.31
          Australian (0.01) 0.05
          Polynesian (0.02) 0.03
          East African (0) 0.02
          Central American (0) 0.01
          Salishan (0) 0.01
          Mexican (0) 0.00
          North Amerindian (0) 0.00
          Malay Archipelago (0) 0.00
          West African (0) 0.00
          Andean (0) 0.00
          South African (0) 0.00
          Athabaskan (0) 0.00
          Tibetan (0) 0.00
          Southeast Asian (0) 0.00
          Arctic (0) 0.00
          North Chinese (0) 0.00
          Ojibwa (0) 0.00
          South Chinese (0) 0.00
          Japanese (0) 0.00
          Amazonian (0) 0.00

          My European Panel:

          Ashkenazi (0.51) 22.85
          Greek (0.68) 16.78
          Portuguese (0.51) 11.90
          Polish (0.47) 11.72
          Spanish (0.5) 11.23
          Italian (0.5) 10.17
          Russian (0.42) 8.83
          Germanic (0.4) 8.03
          North Atlantic (0.34) 7.13
          Finno-Ugrarian (0.43) 6.05
          Balkan (0.37) 5.18
          Basque (0.19) 3.16

          Comment


          • #6
            NJKaren,

            DNA Tribes does not have a very extensive collection of British and Irish reference populations yet. That might be why that wasn't your top match.

            http://www.dnatribes.com/pops-eur.html

            Jim

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks, Jim.

              Do you know if these results would exclude the possibility of Native American ancestry? I have always heard that we "possibly" have NA ancestry but I have never found any genealogical proof.

              Comment


              • #8
                Jim and DKF - thanks for the replies. While I know my background is mostly Eastern European, which was definitely represented in the Tribes results, I still
                have to think the Italian and French scores have to mean something otherwise,
                why would they even show up? Believe me, I have no clue on how they obtain
                the information scientifically, but I have to think logically, that there is some
                basis for all the scores that show up. That's why I questioned if it was possible the Italian reference meant the Romans. The countries in Europe were being sacked & pillaged constantly by invaders from anybody that wanted to be emperor of the world at the time. Although I have no frame of reference as
                far as family history goes, being in the N* MTDNA haplogroup it was one of the earliest to come out of Africa and then spawned off into other groups, so based on that, my theory is I'm probably related to almost everybody on this planet!

                I guess my true background will still just be the Finno-Ugric. Most people have never even heard of the Ruthenians, so I usually just say I'm Russian to make it easier than explaining Ruthenians are a culture/people whatever. However, I read the link you sent Jim, and
                it was pretty interesting. I know my mom will enjoy reading it as well.
                Plus now you've made me curious on that Rusyn thing on Yahoo...I'll have to
                check that out if I can find it.

                Now I'll have to go through this again when my brother takes the DNA Tribes
                test. I'm expecting more Polish and Russian with his results, since our dad was Russian and Polish, and a little Jewish (through his 3xgreat grandmother) as well.

                Whatever the results are, I still think this whole Tribes thing is pretty interesting. However, now I'm not sure whether I should invest in having the Euro test done after all this. Guess I'll just save my money.

                Thanks again for your help. Marcia S.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NJKaren
                  Thanks, Jim.

                  Do you know if these results would exclude the possibility of Native American ancestry? I have always heard that we "possibly" have NA ancestry but I have never found any genealogical proof.
                  I'm not well informed on that area, so hopefully someone else will answer.

                  But anyone can see that there aren't very many eastern tribes in the company's database http://www.dnatribes.com/pops-amer.html

                  Jim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Marcia S.
                    ... Plus now you've made me curious on that Rusyn thing on Yahoo...I'll have to check that out if I can find it.
                    I think you need a free Yahoo Groups account to read this, but here's the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rusyns/messages

                    There's been more heat than light there recently.

                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Southeastern Tribes....

                      Hi

                      Looks like the first part is from the Powatan group(mine) Not familiar with the Amerindian from Mass, but I do have heritage from there, just not sure if it Amerindian. Do you have a specific tribe, with out some sort of idea, its going to be hard. I have all this specific information and I am not comming up with anything that really helps at all on my DNA Tribes Native American panel. Matter of fact most of us with Amerindain ancestry are pulling really low scores! My proven Amerindian ancestry is from the Mid Atlantic area, the Algonquain, Powatan group, the Potowomecke, out of the Southeastern U.S. Virginia, out of Stafford and King George Counties and I still am not comming up with any matches!

                      Maria
                      Last edited by Maria_W; 26 October 2007, 07:40 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks!

                        I think if I have any Native American ancestry it would probably be from Eastern North Carolina as I am pretty sure that my Massachusetts ancestors are 100% European - I am would have thought that perhaps I would have had some matches with the Lumbee but no. I don't actually know that I do have Native American ancestry - it was assumed in the family that we did but I don't know if it was because of anything that anyone actually knew or if it was just assumed because some in the family have dark hair and eyes and a somewhat olive complection.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NJKaren
                          I need help with mine, too. I am really puzzled by this. ... I have no known Turkish, Arab, East European, Italian, Portugese or Spanish ancestry. I have one possible (not confirmed) ancestor who would have been a French Jew who came over in 1631. Many of my ancestors had Scottish surnames and most of the rest had English surnames with some French (Hugenot) and a couple of Irish surnames. ...
                          Your Tribes results are BIZARRE for a person of your ancestry. Why not ask Tribes about them?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Marcia S.
                            ... I still have to think the Italian and French scores have to mean something otherwise, why would they even show up?...
                            They only mean your allelic profile bears some resemblance to that of the populations referenced.

                            While a 100+ for Lille is robust, it is not as strong as your Eastern European scores and your list of Western European matches are well salted with matches to the East/Northeast.

                            All your Italian matches are Adriatic and could be lumped with your Baltic matches that together are the southern end of your Eastern European LINE of matches that runs narrowly SW to NE. Quite definite and quite strong.
                            Last edited by tomcat; 26 October 2007, 03:37 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tomcat
                              Your Tribes results are BIZARRE for a person of your ancestry. Why not ask Tribes about them?
                              Tell me about it! I have contacted Tribes and their reply was simply that my scores are consistent with the Northwest European population (.39). They say anything over .25 would be normal for that population.

                              Comment

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