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  • R1b1c...and confused!

    So I tested with ftDNA and found out my haplogroup to be R1b1c. I went on to test with Ethnoancestry (S-series), and I tested negative for all known SNPs that are downstream markers from R1b1c. What does this mean!?

    My family comes from England; we can trace it back to Suffolk through Emmanuel Downing, but what does my genetic signature say about my deep ancestry? I am confused to where my family might have come from before England. Can anyone give me any ideas?

    Neal

  • #2
    Originally posted by Downing22
    So I tested with ftDNA and found out my haplogroup to be R1b1c. I went on to test with Ethnoancestry (S-series), and I tested negative for all known SNPs that are downstream markers from R1b1c. What does this mean!?

    My family comes from England; we can trace it back to Suffolk through Emmanuel Downing, but what does my genetic signature say about my deep ancestry? I am confused to where my family might have come from before England. Can anyone give me any ideas?

    Neal
    DNA testing is all a bit of a gamble, and with each test there may or may not be more light shed on your recent or deep ancestry. With the finding that you are R1b1c* it is basically telling you that your Y-line does not fit with any of the 11 R1b1c subclades identified to date. This does pose problems in interpretation and it simply tilts the balance of probabiity. The likelihood that your ancestors were for example members of the Celtic Iceni tribe of East Anglia goes up, based on the assumption that what see in Scotland, Wales, and Ireland today applies to the early population structure of England (say in 43 AD). The finding reduces the probability that your ancestors were "invaders" (Anglo - Saxon, Viking), but does not rule out this possibility. Approximately 1/3 of Norse, Danish and Frisian R1b1c is R1b1c*.

    Oddly there are few haplotype patterns associated with R1b1c* in England comparable to Irish Type III, South Irish, or Scots. Hence there is probably little at this point in time that can be said about your Y-line ancestral connections. I was in this situation a couple of years ago until S28 was discovered. You may have to wait a bit until further searches of the Y hopefully locates "your" SNP. Who knows, when this happens it may be the most informative R1b1c Y-SNP yet discovered. There remains so much more to be discovered. What I did in the meanwhile was to focus on my maternal grandfather's R1a1 from the Shetland Islands. This kept me very busy until December of 2005 when "my" clade was identified.

    In sum, the only direct answer is that it will be necessary to wait until a new set of R1b1c SNPs are discovered (which is inevitable) and test for these. Even though my clade has been identified, there is likely a subclade out there which will be highly informative but I too must await the discovery of that SNP. At one time I was directly involved in these SNP hunts, however it was clear that the time and resources to do this commercially could not be justified. That may change with new technology, but I suspect that the discoveries will come from university - based population geneticists, which is how for example M222 was discovered (R1b1c7). EthnoAncestry has made some significant strides in SNP discovery, as reflected in the 2007 ISOGG phylogenetic chart. However it was a genetic genealogist sifting through the Perlgen dataset who made perhaps the most significant R1b1c discovery to date, guiding geneticists toward S21 / U106 / M405 (different names for the same marker).

    We all keep our fingers crossed that tomorrow will bring a new discovery.

    DKF.
    Last edited by DKF; 15 October 2007, 10:26 AM.

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