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  • mtDNA European tribes or ethnic groups

    I wonder if mtDNA haplogroups or clades can be attributed to certain tribes or ethnic groups within Europe? I know that with Y-DNA certain haplogroups have been linked to certain historical groups for example J2 in Britain with the Romans and R1b1c10 with the Cimbri or La Tene Celts. Can any of the same be done with mtDNA?

    I remember reading somewhere that some clades of mtDNA haplogroup J may be linked to Celtic speakers.

  • #2
    I think the work is being done. Maybe we have to wait a few years. I am surprise how much work has been done with R1b but so little with others. I think researchers first study their clades while other people wait for results? At least that is what I do because I did not have the time to look into the other clades . . .

    mtDNA
    L0 Central Eastern African, much of sub-Saharan
    L1 East, Southern. Central, West African. Explorer group and L0 group
    L2_2758 Wide sub-Saharan distribution, four unique subsets
    L3594 Central to out of Africa in Arabia or to north-western Africa
    M10400 Red Sea-E. Africa, Nile Valley, Mediterranean to Australia, expanded north from Persia
    D5178 Caspian Sea and Lake Baikal to Ancient American, East Asia
    C13263 Caspian Sea and Lake Baikal to Ancient American, Central Asia
    N10873 Eastern Mediterranean, western Asia
    N1_10238 Ashkenazi Jew to Egypt to Greece to Persia to East of Black Sea
    I10034 Western Eurasian, Caucasus to north Asia and western Europe
    A4248 Caspian Sea and Lake Baikal to Ancient American, Eskimos, Asians
    W1243 Caucasus to Northern Eurasian, west to Europe (Aurignacian)
    X6371 North and East Africa, Western Eurasia, Early America
    R12705 Surrounding area of the Near East, descendants dominated Europe
    U11467 NW Eurasia into Scandinavia, N. Caucasus Mts., Near East, N. Africa, India, Ancestral K
    K10550 NW Eurasia into Scandinavia, Northern Caucasus Mountains, Near East, N. Africa, India
    R0_11719 West Eurasian
    HV14766 Caucasus Mountains, Ethiopia (Arabian Slave), Anatolia, N. Poland
    H7028 Turkey, Caucasus Mountains, Iberian Peninsula, Italy, Balkans, Europe,
    V4580 Southern Europe to NW Africa, Scandinavia
    J12612 Fertile Crescent , Arabia, India, Eastern Eurasia & Europe
    T13368 Fertile Crescent, Indus Valley, Arabian Peninsula, NE Europe
    R9_3970 Parent of hg F, Indochina, Malay Peninsula, island Southeast Asia
    B Caspian Sea and Lake Baikal to Ancient American, Pacific Coast, South East Asia
    Z Caspian Sea and Lake Baikal to Siberia and Asia
    F Caspian Sea and Lake Baikal to Asia, East Asia, Central Siberia
    P S. Pacific region, especially in New Guinea, Melanesia, indigenous populations of Australia
    G East Asian, northeastern Siberia
    Y_A14693G South Siberian populations
    S Aboriginal Australians
    O Branch from hg N
    Q southern Pacific region
    E southern Asia distribution
    ?* several parental haplogroups
    (mostly data from Gen. Prog. 2005 and journal articles)

    Originally posted by J Man
    I wonder if mtDNA haplogroups or clades can be attributed to certain tribes or ethnic groups within Europe? I know that with Y-DNA certain haplogroups have been linked to certain historical groups for example J2 in Britain with the Romans and R1b1c10 with the Cimbri or La Tene Celts. Can any of the same be done with mtDNA?

    I remember reading somewhere that some clades of mtDNA haplogroup J may be linked to Celtic speakers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sub-Clades

      Hello ;Do you know the geographic origins of H 1 , my sub-clade? Thanks ,KAT.

      Comment


      • #4
        H1a1...

        I am H1a1. Any indepth information on it. A lady was going to do a report for me but this was right before my father died and I just couldn't concentrate on it and I lost the chance to do it then. How do I know from which area she came. You list Turkey, Caucasus Mountians, Iberian , Italy, Balkans and Europe. ect. I don't see anything on H1a1. I can only go back to around 1715 and I beleve she was from Germany but......

        Maria
        Last edited by Maria_W; 8 October 2007, 11:11 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Maria_W
          I am H1a1. Any indepth information on it. A lady was going to do a report for me but this was right before my father died and I just couldn't concentrate on it and I lost the chance to do it then. How do I know from which area she came. You list Turkey, Caucasus Mountians, Iberian , Italy, Balkans and Europe. ect. I don't see anything on H1a1. I can only go back to around 1715 and I beleve she was from Germany but......

          Maria
          It doesn't look like there's much detailed information about H1 or H1a. That's probably because it's the most common subclade of H and is found everywhere in Europe. Here's the little description that FTDNA has for them:

          "H1 – H1 is the most common branch of haplogroup H. It represents 30% of people in haplogroup H, and 46% of the maternal lineages in Iberia. 13-14% of all Europeans belong to this branch, and H1 is about 13,000 years old.

          "H1a – H1a is a branch of H1. Further research will better resolve the distribution and historical characteristics of this haplogroup."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by J Man
            I wonder if mtDNA haplogroups or clades can be attributed to certain tribes or ethnic groups within Europe? I know that with Y-DNA certain haplogroups have been linked to certain historical groups for example J2 in Britain with the Romans and R1b1c10 with the Cimbri or La Tene Celts. Can any of the same be done with mtDNA?

            I remember reading somewhere that some clades of mtDNA haplogroup J may be linked to Celtic speakers.
            I think it's like Y DNA-testing in that you would ideally want to combine checking out your mtDNA with conventional genealogical research to establish the most complete paper-trail of your ancestors that you can. Don't lay too much stress on your mtDNA haplotype alone to work out your ethnicity.

            For example, Bryan Sykes tells us that mtDNA K (which he calls Katrine) is commoner in the Western Isles than anywhere else in Scotland. These islands are the last refuge of the Gaelic language in Scotland, with a mixed Celtic/Viking population. Yet K is also common in Italy, and I believe Oetzi the Alpine iceman tested K. So just knowing you are a K gets you nowhere.

            I'm an mtDNA J*, and my earliest known ancestress in that line was a Northern Ireland Protestant with a Scottish surname. No doubt J people in the British Isles would have had ancestors speaking a Celtic language. But the ultimate Raquel Welch-lookalike ur-ancestress is supposed to be from Syria. J is still commonest in the Middle East (commonest of all among the Bedouin) but it's also the 2nd commonest haplogroup in Europe after H (Helena).

            The Wikipedia article on mtDNA J says "Of the two main sub-groups, J1 takes up four-fifths of the total and is spread on the continent while J2 is more localised around the Mediterranean, notably in Turkey, Greece, Italy/Sardinia and Spain." But J folk are also found in Azerbaijan, the Hindu Kush, Pakistan, you name it.

            Harry

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by hdw
              I think it's like Y DNA-testing in that you would ideally want to combine checking out your mtDNA with conventional genealogical research to establish the most complete paper-trail of your ancestors that you can. Don't lay too much stress on your mtDNA haplotype alone to work out your ethnicity.

              For example, Bryan Sykes tells us that mtDNA K (which he calls Katrine) is commoner in the Western Isles than anywhere else in Scotland. These islands are the last refuge of the Gaelic language in Scotland, with a mixed Celtic/Viking population. Yet K is also common in Italy, and I believe Oetzi the Alpine iceman tested K. So just knowing you are a K gets you nowhere.

              I'm an mtDNA J*, and my earliest known ancestress in that line was a Northern Ireland Protestant with a Scottish surname. No doubt J people in the British Isles would have had ancestors speaking a Celtic language. But the ultimate Raquel Welch-lookalike ur-ancestress is supposed to be from Syria. J is still commonest in the Middle East (commonest of all among the Bedouin) but it's also the 2nd commonest haplogroup in Europe after H (Helena).

              The Wikipedia article on mtDNA J says "Of the two main sub-groups, J1 takes up four-fifths of the total and is spread on the continent while J2 is more localised around the Mediterranean, notably in Turkey, Greece, Italy/Sardinia and Spain." But J folk are also found in Azerbaijan, the Hindu Kush, Pakistan, you name it.

              Harry

              Yes you see the thing is on my mtDNA side I am a U5a. I have only had HVR1 tested though and I have no exact matches. I have two 1 step matches though with a people who's ancestry is from Ireland and Norway. I know that my haplogroup is considered to be the first in Europe and that my mtDNA ancestors were at one time European hunter-gatherers but I wish I could find out some more info about who they were in more historic times such as the Iron or Medieval ages.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hdw
                J is still commonest in the Middle East (commonest of all among the Bedouin) but it's also the 2nd commonest haplogroup in Europe after H (Helena).
                I read in another thread that U* is the 2nd most common in Europe, after H.
                Tied for 3rd is T, K, & J.
                Originally posted by Kaiser
                Of the Hg frequencies observed, Haplogroup H tops the list at 38%, with U* at 13% and J, T & K tied at ~8%.
                http://www.familytreedna.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=4344
                Last edited by rainbow; 8 October 2007, 08:29 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Where in the Hell is K from?

                  Mt K is a little controversial as you list them-you make it seem they come from all over the whole God-damned world,but from what I know they are considered to just be Germany/ Austria-that's what Bennet Greenspan told me. He's the founder of this FamilyTree Biz. Mt K can marry anyone ,any where,like most people can,but THEY themselves aren't from all over the place. One of my K matches has married a HawaiianAsian ,(who originated in Taiwan),and one has married a Polynesian in the South Pacific,making those Asian peoples half White/hapa haole they are called. But Mt K themselves are not an Asian Haplogroup,as are Hawaiians and Polynesians. Not that Asian is a bad thing ;they are pretty good looking.
                  But Mt K's haplogroup isn't from all over from what I know-many that I suspect are K look normal White to me,though the half-breed mixed ones would look different,as do ALL half breeds of any kind where they look like both odd race parents,and fit in no where in particular,but are unique to say the least.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Autosomal variety

                    As for autosomals, everyone I've seen has a large variety of different breeds in their total makeup,like The President being related to Pocohontas The Indian an many White Caucasians have blood from Africa,Mediterranean,and Native Indians in their Total Autosomal racial makeup-but all your autosomals total up to a Haplogroup which you are and mine is MtK and MtK is said to be predominantly German/Austrian, NOT predominantly Indian,African, the Mediterranean,or Asian,. So unless my haplogroup calls me a major "other" ,then I am not to be classified as "others". I'm not upset,but I like to have a set definition,so I know what I'm working with,but people always say K is from "all over",which doesn't make sense to me.Most foreign groups would like to have a Mt K in their tribe but they don't contain any in reality.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jambalaia32
                      Mt K is a little controversial as you list them-you make it seem they come from all over the whole God-damned world,but from what I know they are considered to just be Germany/ Austria-that's what Bennet Greenspan told me. He's the founder of this FamilyTree Biz. Mt K can marry anyone ,any where,like most people can,but THEY themselves aren't from all over the place. One of my K matches has married a HawaiianAsian ,(who originated in Taiwan),and one has married a Polynesian in the South Pacific,making those Asian peoples half White/hapa haole they are called. But Mt K themselves are not an Asian Haplogroup,as are Hawaiians and Polynesians. Not that Asian is a bad thing ;they are pretty good looking.
                      But Mt K's haplogroup isn't from all over from what I know-many that I suspect are K look normal White to me,though the half-breed mixed ones would look different,as do ALL half breeds of any kind where they look like both odd race parents,and fit in no where in particular,but are unique to say the least.
                      Well, here's the official FTDNA write-up about mtDNA K:

                      "The mitochondrial super-haplogroup U encompasses haplogroups U1-U7 and haplogroup K. Haplogroup K is found through Europe, and contains multiple closely related lineages indicating a recent population expansion. The origin of haplogroup K dates to approximately 16,000 years ago, and it has been suggested that individuals with this haplogroup took part in the pre-Neolithic expansion following the Last Glacial Maximum."

                      It makes clear that K is found througout Europe, not just Germany. The write-up for K on the Genographic Project website indicates that the route for K to Europe was from the Middle East, through the area of the Caucasus Mountains to the area north of the Black Sea, probably present day Ukraine. And from there it went into Europe and spread.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Match all and few

                        Most of my matches come from Great Britain,Germany,and France though they don't have a power structure to provide for themselves or me like many other race groups do. So all sorts of foreign groups try to gather me up,like Native Americans,and Black Americans,and The Latins, Arabs, and Foreign White Groups like many Slavs I don't know-all these people are very nice ,but most are a little to strange for me in many ways.Apparently I'm just not bred to be with these peoples and do all the things they do.

                        I may have a little of everything but I am not one of them totally or else my haplogroup would match theirs,and so would my autosomals-which they don't.

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