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Phoenician Dna---J2

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  • #31
    J2 Lebanies are not a phoenicians .

    The J2,s in Lebanon are for Romans, ancient Greeks, Armenians and Kurds all of them been their, the Phoenicians are Semitics and all Semitics are J1 only.

    Gulf

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    • #32
      History

      It seems that you know littlie about history J Man.

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      • #33
        Earlier this week I saw something on wikipedia about ydna haplogroups.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h..._ethnic_groups

        According to that list, Ashkenazi Jews are mostly R1a, then R1b, then I. No J found at all. Isn't that odd?

        The table in that link shows that J is found in Croats, Albanians, Greeks, almost half of men from Oman, about 1/3 of men in Iran, etc.

        I honestly don't know the difference between ydna J1 and J2.
        Last edited by rainbow; 20 June 2008, 04:17 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by rainbow
          Earlier this week I saw something on wikipedia about ydna haplogroups.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h..._ethnic_groups

          According to that list, Ashkenazi Jews are mostly R1a, then R1b, then I.
          No J found at all.
          I just happened to glance at this thread and this comment appears to be off-topic -- however, I hate misinformation, so I have to respond. At the bottom of the list on the Wikipedia page, it says, "This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it." And indeed this list is sorely incomplete by showing that Ashkenazi Jews are only in R1a, R1b and I.

          The truth is, Ashkenazi Jews can be found in several subclades of at least the following Y-DNA backbone haplogroups: E, G, I, J, K, Q, R and T. All anyone has to do is look at the Jewish Heritage Project here at FTDNA to see the huge variety of Y-DNA haplogroups included. There are also haplogroup projects here at FTDNA specifically for the study of Jewish members of haplogroups E, Q and R1b. And at least the haplogroup G and J projects have extensive studies of Jewish haplotypes within those subclades.

          Be very wary of what you quote from Wikipedia. It has some good information, but also some very incomplete and wrong information.

          Elise
          Last edited by efgen; 20 June 2008, 04:34 PM.

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          • #35
            descendants of Abraham

            The real Israelites (descendants of Abraham) are J1,s only .

            Gulf

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            • #36
              Originally posted by efgen
              I just happened to glance at this thread and this comment appears to be off-topic -- however, I hate misinformation, so I have to respond. At the bottom of the list on the Wikipedia page, it says, "This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it." And indeed this list is sorely incomplete by showing that Ashkenazi Jews are only in R1a, R1b and I.

              The truth is, Ashkenazi Jews can be found in several subclades of at least the following Y-DNA backbone haplogroups: E, G, I, J, K, Q, R and T. All anyone has to do is look at the Jewish Heritage Project here at FTDNA to see the huge variety of Y-DNA haplogroups included. There are also haplogroup projects here at FTDNA specifically for the study of Jewish members of haplogroups E, Q and R1b. And at least the haplogroup G and J projects have extensive studies of Jewish haplotypes within those subclades.

              Be very wary of what you quote from Wikipedia. It has some good information, but also some very incomplete and wrong information.

              Elise

              Okay Elise. I know I heard somewhere (on this forum probably) that some were J, but I was suprised that no J's were listed in that wikipedia link.
              But I think I'll still go to wikipedia first for everything.



              Originally posted by Gulf
              The real Israelites (descendants of Abraham) are J1,s only .

              Gulf
              If that's true, that they were originally J1, then there must have been a whole lot of non-paternal events going on over the centuries. lol
              Last edited by rainbow; 20 June 2008, 05:01 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Gulf
                The real Israelites (descendants of Abraham) are J1,s only .

                Gulf
                wait a minute..I don't hink that is right
                they can't tell G from J1 and I1a's
                second sea people were from Japheth and not Shem... the sometimes spoke and shared the semitic language but were not "Jews" from Judah .... Israelis ( 10 lost tribes Northern kingdom ) MAY HAVE have gotten into the boats of the Phoenicians when they were living with Canaanites( who are Ham) and when they shared lands in Syria and were inter mixed with and became pagan worshipping. sexually liberal, baby killers also known as "Samaritan " which Jesus still thought of as Jews or he would not have traveled out to met the " woman at the well" but they were most likely did not consider themselves " Jewish" ... all of which is all that whitish... there was not just one DNA line that is any of these people mentioned but were always a mix of brothers and peoples of different colors and shapes and sizes..
                the sea people were at least 4 different brothers all of which were not from Shem and thus NOT . J or anything close to it.. now that does not mean there wasn't some J's G's F's I's and E's in the boats... maybe even lots of them , but they were not in the majority of the "sea people..."

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by rainbow
                  Okay Elise. I know I heard somewhere (on this forum probably) that some were J, but I was suprised that no J's were listed in that wikipedia link.
                  The number of Jewish people in J is much more than "some". J (both J1 and J2) is the most common Y-DNA haplogroup among Jewish men. I don't know the breakdown of Ashkenazi vs Sephardic, but speaking from personal experience, I tested 4 male family members from different branches of my own Ashkenazi Jewish family and they happened to all be J.

                  Elise

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                  • #39
                    J is the most common haplogroup among Ashkenazi , around 40% of Jews. Some studies show equal division between J1 and J2, others show more J2 than J1 although Cohens are mainly J1. Some of the studies are in the FTDNA library. For example for the 40% figure see Behar (2004).
                    Arabs are modally J1. However there are a number of Muslims in Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine who are J2. For example, according to Iraqi researcher Al-Zahery (2003), 25% of Iraqis, 29% of Lebanese and 15% of Syrians are J2. To the extent that these countries were "Arabized" there tends to be more J1 than J2. Most researchers such as the NG Lebanon project have concluded that some of the J1 in these areas was the result of the spread of Islam. I realize that this is a very controversial area. From my perspective, the wonder of dna patterns is that they reflect our commonality and thus undercut the issues that divide us.
                    Last edited by josh w.; 20 June 2008, 09:44 PM.

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                    • #40
                      P.S. An independent review by Nebel (2007) came to the same conclusion as the NG project. Namely, that some Levantine J1 probably resulted from the spread of Islam from Arabia. (I think that there was a link to the study on Costa's J2 project reference section).
                      Also I seem to recall a study of Sephardic Jews which reported more J2 than J1.
                      Last edited by josh w.; 20 June 2008, 10:19 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Arab Jewish

                        I will talk about the Arab Jewish only because I don
                        Last edited by Gulf; 21 June 2008, 07:23 AM. Reason: Adding more information

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                        • #42
                          I hope it adds somthing
                          Last edited by Gulf; 21 June 2008, 07:16 AM.

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                          • #43
                            "Semites" are a linguistic group not a biological dna based group. People from different dna backgrounds may speak the same language. For example, people in eastern Sweden and in Hawaii both speak Germanic languages but they are literally miles apart in dna background.

                            The Near East (the Levant and northwest Arabia) has been populated for at least 20,000 to 30,000 years.(Actually around 90,000 years if one includes extinct modern human lines). From this perspective, haplogroup J including J1 and J2, is not native to the Near East. J arrived from eastern Iraq only 10,000 years ago with the spread of agriculture in the neolithic period. In other words, other haplogroups were present in the Near East before J was present. J2 spread in the north and some J1 spread to the south and eventually in all directions with the rise of Islam. However, modern patterns in Lebanon and Israel suggest that some J1 came directly from the east before the rise of Islam. In addition Jim H's work reveals a non- Semitic J1 pattern in the north.

                            It would be a mistake to conclude that because J2 was present in the north it can't be Semitic. There were major Semitic nations in the north including the Akkadians and Assyrians. They probably included J1 and J2.
                            Last edited by josh w.; 21 June 2008, 01:08 PM.

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                            • #44
                              P.S. Correction---It is possible that some J had migrated to the Near East before the spread of agriculture. However it is also very likely that other lines were present before the neolithic period. Given the proximity of Egypt, African lines (subclades of E, for example) were probably in the area. In addition, an ice age refuge extended to the northern Levant, i.e. European lines may have preceded J.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Gulf
                                It seems that you know littlie about history J Man.

                                lol give me a break.

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