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  • FTDNA Reported Exact Matches

    On my personal page, using the Matches link, FTDNA currently shows that I have 274 exact 12 marker matches. Ysearch shows only about 50. If I include haplogroup R1b1c to the search criteria along with my surname there is only one exact match. FTDNA and I agree on that and that is the only exact match within the McCown surname shown by FTDNA. This apparently means that a very large percentage of the 274 matches never upload their results to Ysearch. I find this puzzling because Ysearch would be much more useful if they did so. In addition, many of the few that do upload their results to Ysearch either have not been given a probable haplogroup prediction or they do not realize how strong such a prediction is because so many report haplogroup as "Unknown". Some may not realize that their predicted (take it to the bank) haplogroup is shown under the personal page Haplogroup link just below the text. If you have not uploaded your results to Ysearch, including your predicted haplogroup, this is a chance for you to make Ysearch a better tool for yourself and the rest of us.

  • #2
    Low-resolution matches

    Bill,

    I was similarly flummoxed by an apparent inconsistency between the 'Recent Ancestral Origins' (i.e., "RAO") page and results at Ysearch.org.

    In my case, I had tested 37 Y markers. Because Ysearch will test against the maximum # of markers reported for all relevant individuals, regardless of the minimum # of markers you select in the Ysearch parameters, most of my "close matches" at 25 markers per RAO fell apart on Ysearch, and therefore were not displayed.

    I got around this by creating a special 'research only' profile in Ysearch, by entering only my first 25 markers. This allowed me to review the low-resolution matches. It gave me some useful information about the remote ethnic origins of my people, but that's about it, really. I have to have a higher resolution match to get any further.

    Based on what I've read around town, matches at 12 loci are next to meaningless, however, so I probably wouldn't spend too much time on them.

    Best of luck
    Jack

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by wmccown
      If you have not uploaded your results to Ysearch, including your predicted haplogroup, this is a chance for you to make Ysearch a better tool for yourself and the rest of us.
      But that is precisely the problem: A predicted haplogroup does not upload automatically with your markers. Whenever you upload markers semi-automatically via the hyperlink on your Y-DNA Matches tab, a predicted haplogroup gets uploaded as Unknown. The customer has to notice this and then enter the predicted haplogroup himself, manually.

      Comment


      • #4
        FTDNA Reported Exact Matches

        Thanks for your replies, Jack. The McCown Surname Group administrator, Leonard McCown, has graciously prevailed upon group members to post their predicted haplogroups on Ysearch. As expected, most of us are R1b1c. Unfortunately, not all of the group members have allowed their results to be posted at FTDNA, never mind Ysearch. One of the Scottish clan names that pops up most frequently among my 12 marker matches is MacLeod. I was surprised that, while they allow FTDNA to publish their results, none of the MacLeods have uploaded their results on Ysearch. The reason for my surprise is that they are denying useful information to all other MacLeods as well as everyone else who uses Ysearch. In fact, in the alphabetical list of surnames at Ysearch, the only MacLeod surname that pops up is MacLeod-Stewart whose surname is actually Graham. I didn't realize that the list of exact 12 marker matches, regardless of surnames, on the FTDNA personal page was the same number included in Recent Ancestral Origins, which doesn't include surnames. I am pleased that I was tested by FTDNA for 37 markers and was surprised that at 25 markers there is one 24/25 match and ten 23/25 matches, all Irish surnames (no McCowns) and six 33/37 matches, all Irish surnames (no McCowns). In fact, from the matches I would appear to have a common ancestor more recent than Adam with Maguires, McGuires, MacAuleys and Donahoes. As with most others tested, the problem is so many people and so few tested.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lgmayka
          But that is precisely the problem: A predicted haplogroup does not upload automatically with your markers. Whenever you upload markers semi-automatically via the hyperlink on your Y-DNA Matches tab, a predicted haplogroup gets uploaded as Unknown. The customer has to notice this and then enter the predicted haplogroup himself, manually.
          Igmayka


          I wasn't aware of the " unknown" prediction problem until the other day and someone in an earlier post on another thread brought that to my attention.
          Several " unknown " were found to likely be in Haplo Group H, and I have since tried to contact them.

          Y search is a very important database and to have reporting errors by the user is frustrating to say the least.
          But now knowing the " unknown " reporting error, really explains a whole lot of issues that I have been dealing with. I have found a large percentage of
          users who manually typed in his Haplo, reported it incorrectly.

          The many Y H Haplo listed on Y search are in fact not Y H Haplo but rather
          mt H Haplo, so when you search only H Haplo Group there are far more people listed in this rare DNA group then there really is. I think that at least half or more of the Y H's on Y search are wrong, they are actually mt H's not
          Y H's. I actually think it is more in the line of 3/4 of the people on Y search
          H Haplo Group are in error.

          This false reporting really hurts my efforts in trying to find true Y H Haplo participants. I end up having to explain to the people who are listed as
          Y H Haplo, that they aren't Y H Haplo Group and am spending valuable time trying to explain to them that their Y search results are being reported in error, to please correct this error so I don't pester them to join the Y H Haplo project.

          Few who have uploaded to Y search even know how to log on to Y search and make corrections in the first place. This is a serious problem and I don't know how to help to get it corrected, other then to contact each user and ask them nicely to correct their error.

          One has to wonder if the Y search H Haplo Group has such a large percentage of wrong reports, how many other Haplo Groups are also being plagued by this problem?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wmccown
            In fact, from the matches I would appear to have a common ancestor more recent than Adam with Maguires, McGuires, MacAuleys and Donahoes.
            Well, Bill that's interesting. Traditional genealogies give the McAuleys of the Breifne region as a branch of the Maguires. Do you have any connections to the Fermanagh/Cavan region, as far as you know?

            Jack

            Comment


            • #7
              FTDNA Reported Exact Matches

              Thanks for your replies and much food for thought. Before being tested, I had no idea of YDNA roots in Ireland except for perhaps early Irish settlers in Scotland. There are plenty of Irish surnames belonging to my McCown line's spouses. It is with some amazement that my 3 closest Recent Ancestral Origins matches are first, Ireland, then England, then Scotland. I would have expected Scotland to be first.

              Comment


              • #8
                [QUOTE=wmccown One of the Scottish clan names that pops up most frequently among my 12 marker matches is MacLeod. I was surprised that, while they allow FTDNA to publish their results, none of the MacLeods have uploaded their results on Ysearch. The reason for my surprise is that they are denying useful information to all other MacLeods as well as everyone else who uses Ysearch. [/QUOTE]

                If you go to www.clanmacleod.org and click on the link for Genealogy, you can read about a MacLeod DNA project under the auspices of University College London (UCL):

                "Some 32% of the volunteers revealed a common haplogroup compatible with origins 1,000 years ago on the Isle of Man. An additional 12% revealed a common haplogroup compatible with Scandinavian origins". The writer comments that this fits in with traditional clan lore.

                This seems to me to be badly phrased. 1,000 years ago is surely too recent for the formation of a haplogroup. I think this is shorthand for - Norwegian Vikings had settled in Man by about 1,000 years ago, and that's when this particular Scandinavian Y DNA haplogroup first appears in the British Isles.

                There are now 4 related MacLeod DNA projects. Out in parts of the Western Isles, like the islands of Harris and Lewis, it's overwhelmingly the commonest name.

                Harry

                Comment


                • #9
                  FTDNA Reported Exact Matches

                  Thanks Harry, I am glad to hear about the various FTDNA Clan MacLeod projects. I used the Genealogy link at the Clan site and read about the various clan groupings as well as the list and history of the septs. The reason for my interest was because of the number of exact matches at 12 markers that I have with MacLeod and the fact that they do include MacAuleys. I have found no connection whatever between McCown and either MacAuley or MacLeod. The Isle of Man connection was also of interest in that I have been in contact with a McCowne whose family can trace their direct lineage back to the mid 1500s on the Isle of Man. Also, the first of their family known to have moved away from the island was the grandfather of my correspondent. Her brother furnished the YDNA sample. She said headstones still exist on the Isle of Man back to the 13th century with the McCowne name. Her brother seems to have some matches to the Levitical tribe which in turn traces itself back to Aaron the brother of Moses.
                  I felt that I was in over my head and stopped there as most Europeans have either or both Ashkenazi or Sephardic matches though not necessarily in the exact matches at 12/12.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wmccown
                    Thanks Harry, I am glad to hear about the various FTDNA Clan MacLeod projects. I used the Genealogy link at the Clan site and read about the various clan groupings as well as the list and history of the septs. The reason for my interest was because of the number of exact matches at 12 markers that I have with MacLeod and the fact that they do include MacAuleys. I have found no connection whatever between McCown and either MacAuley or MacLeod. The Isle of Man connection was also of interest in that I have been in contact with a McCowne whose family can trace their direct lineage back to the mid 1500s on the Isle of Man. Also, the first of their family known to have moved away from the island was the grandfather of my correspondent. Her brother furnished the YDNA sample. She said headstones still exist on the Isle of Man back to the 13th century with the McCowne name. Her brother seems to have some matches to the Levitical tribe which in turn traces itself back to Aaron the brother of Moses.
                    I felt that I was in over my head and stopped there as most Europeans have either or both Ashkenazi or Sephardic matches though not necessarily in the exact matches at 12/12.
                    Hi. Do you have a copy of the standard work on Scottish surnames, George F. Black's "The Surnames of Scotland"? Black worked for many years for the New York Public Library, and they published his book in 1946, since when it has gone through many reprints.

                    McCowan is a fine Gaelic name, coming from Mac Gille Chomghain. 'son of the servant of St. Comgan'. He lived in Lochalsh in the West Highlands in the late 7th century and founded several churches.

                    There's a famous English actor called Alec McCowen. To judge from his name, he must be of Scottish stock. Here in Scotland there's a well-known journalist and author called Rennie MacOwan, but he used to be press officer for the Catholic Church in Scotland and may be of Irish origin, I'm not sure.

                    Cowan is fairly common too. I used to go to academic conferences in connection with my work, and two frequent attenders were the Scottish historians Professor Ian Cowan of Glasgow University and his younger counterpart Professor Ted Cowan, then of Guelph University in Canada, now of Glasgow University. As they were both medieval historians and both came from Dumfriesshire, people often assumed they were father and son, to Ted's great amusement, and he used to reinforce this impression by sitting beside Ian in the bar at night and calling him "faither".

                    But a word of warning about Cowan in Scotland - people with this name are sometimes Ashkenazi Jews originally called Cohen! From the 19th century onwards many Jews from Eastern Europe settled in Scotland, esp. from Lithuania, some anglicised their names, and many Cohens became Cowan. There was a writer called Evelyn Cowan who came from this community.

                    As for McLeod and McAuley, they are both derived from a Scandinavian Viking ancestor - in the latter case, from Olaf, which in Gaelic becomes Amhlaidh, so I'm not surprised if McLeods and McAuleys have similar Y DNA haplotypes.

                    Bryan Sykes's book "Blood of the Isles" has some interesting pages about his DNA testing of McDonalds and related McDougalls and McAllisters.

                    Harry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      FTDNA Reported Exact Matches

                      Thanks again, Harry. Yes, I have Black's Surnames of Scotland, a book called Tartan for Me and a book on Surnames of Ireland. One thing that Mr. Black says is particularly troublesome is the phonectics of surnames in that those derived from MacCowan and MacEwen sound so much alike. I have read that the Gaelic pronounciation of MacDonad is mhic oonel. This and several other instances makes it appear that in Gaelic that "o" had an ooo sound so that MacCowan would sound like mhic oowan. That would help explain how MacEwen (mhic Eoin) would sound alike to the non-Gaelic speaker. www.electricscotland.com has a list of family names associated with various clans and other great families. It is surprising how many clans have variants of MacIlcomgan. That name was wide spread in the west and north of Scotland at one time along with it's many variants. I really enjoy the responses from you and the others who have taken the time to reply.

                      I am aware of the Cohen, Cohan, Cowan adoptions by Jews. It is a very good survival technique.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wmccown
                        One thing that Mr. Black says is particularly troublesome is the phonectics of surnames in that those derived from MacCowan and MacEwen sound so much alike. I have read that the Gaelic pronounciation of MacDonad is mhic oonel. This and several other instances makes it appear that in Gaelic that "o" had an ooo sound so that MacCowan would sound like mhic oowan.
                        It's difficult to show Gaelic pronunciation in writing. Black isn't very accurate about the pronunciation of Mac Dhomnuill - it's more like machk-aw'ull, with the ch pronounced as a guttural sound, like in 'loch', and with a nasal vowel sound where the n should be. This pronunciation comes very close to McConnell, which, historically, is the "same" name as McDonald.

                        Harry

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                        • #13
                          FTDNA Reported Exact Matches

                          Harry, Regarding pronounciations in Irish or Scottish Gaelic, all that I know is what I read. I don't doubt your explanation of the pronounciation of MacDonald in the least. In other places I have read that there are some differences in pronounciation between the Irish and Scottish word Gaelic. It said that the Irish pronounce it as Galeic, and the Scots pronounce it as Gallic. I was surprised to hear a recording of a Scottish singer, I believe her name was Jean Redpath, who spoke the word as Gallic as well. In modern Irish pronounciation I have read that McKeon is pronounced as McCone while McKeown is pronounced as Mc Own(rhymes with tone). Old phone books here in the US used to list McCown with the note (also see McKeon) which troubled me greatly as an elementary school student. I will see if the "Blood of the Isles" book is available locally.,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wmccown
                            Harry, Regarding pronounciations in Irish or Scottish Gaelic, all that I know is what I read. I don't doubt your explanation of the pronounciation of MacDonald in the least. In other places I have read that there are some differences in pronounciation between the Irish and Scottish word Gaelic. It said that the Irish pronounce it as Galeic, and the Scots pronounce it as Gallic. I was surprised to hear a recording of a Scottish singer, I believe her name was Jean Redpath, who spoke the word as Gallic as well. In modern Irish pronounciation I have read that McKeon is pronounced as McCone while McKeown is pronounced as Mc Own(rhymes with tone). Old phone books here in the US used to list McCown with the note (also see McKeon) which troubled me greatly as an elementary school student. I will see if the "Blood of the Isles" book is available locally.,
                            I'm only an amateur where Gaelic is concerned, and it's a notoriously difficult language for non-natives to pronounce. It's quite true that the Irish pronounce it as Gay-lick and the Scots as Gahl-ick. The two versions of the language are quite different - for example, 'there isn't' in Scottish Gaelic is 'chan eil', but in Irish 'nìl'. They say that Donegal Gaelic is the closest to Scottish Gaelic of all the Irish dialects.

                            Jean Redpath was a very fine singer of traditional Scottish ballads. Like me, she was a native speaker of Lowland Scots (like northern English) rather than Gaelic, although no doubt she also studied Gaelic songs.

                            I believe "Blood of the Isles" has a different title in the States - something like "Celts, Saxons and Vikings".

                            Harry

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